Session Start: Wed Jul 05 00:00:00 2006 Session Ident: #USpirateparty [00:07:03] * SKuRGe911 (SKuRGe911@THX-7D06C4E.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit:) [00:07:53] <+Smirnov> Are there people still awake? [00:08:26] Some. [00:09:31] yes, doing the homework I've put off as long as is reasonable :P [00:09:49] <+Smirnov> All right we might need some early adopters soon [00:10:01] of? [00:13:06] <+Smirnov> Heh what do you think.. [00:14:23] I dunno... [00:14:24] Well, I'm out. [00:14:32] Have a good one everybody. [00:14:37] you too [00:14:41] * Charger (~Anon746@THX-294F4934.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: www.lukaroski.com) [00:17:55] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [00:19:10] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [00:24:40] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [00:24:40] * PirateBot sets mode: +ao TheWizrd TheWizrd [00:25:47] <+Smirnov> Ok whose alive here, we're going to need some volunteers in a bit [00:26:40] present [00:27:25] <+Smirnov> Well first of all I think everyone needs to tae the time to consider donating to our party [00:34:07] <@TheWizrd> is anyone else awake? [00:34:13] Ok we need some volunteers now :) [00:34:43] <@snackbeard> WAKE UP!!! ;) [00:35:37] Sweet. Worked for me, I'm registered now :) [00:35:48] <+Smirnov> who can send global server msgs besides Echelon [00:36:21] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [00:36:28] * Smirnov (~Smirnovd@Smirnov.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Client exited) [00:37:22] ScrollMaker: are you awake [00:37:26] Yea. [00:37:34] Do you want to volunteer? [00:37:43] For what? [00:37:52] To be an early adopter for our site [00:38:47] Yes/no/maybe? [00:38:55] What do you mean? [00:39:35] <@snackbeard> wooohoo! [00:40:52] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [00:42:57] * box|xp (~boxgamex@THX-BC972423.fuse.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [00:43:12] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [00:45:01] hello [00:50:04] * will-sama (~person@THX-6F4797AB.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #USpirateparty [01:04:20] * Smirnov|laptop (~igor@THX-BBE09DB5.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [01:21:25] * box|xp (~boxgamex@THX-BC972423.fuse.net) has joined #USpirateparty [01:28:24] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [01:45:21] <@tommstein> woo hoo, boogey boogey. did the site make it up on the 4th? [01:45:33] <@snackbeard> Yeah. [01:45:37] <@snackbeard> Yee haw [01:45:47] <@snackbeard> I was wondering where you were. [01:45:47] * tommstein fires off a firework in celebration [01:45:48] <@tommstein> life is good [01:45:54] <@tommstein> or less crappy at least [01:46:02] <@snackbeard> right [01:46:13] <@tommstein> i was watching the shuttle launch, then doing my own fireworks thing, between sitting around [01:46:35] * tommstein does a little dance [01:46:54] <@snackbeard> That's cool. [01:47:09] <@snackbeard> I've been pretty much glued to a computer for 3 days. [01:47:11] <@tommstein> i might have been late, but i saw, heard, and felt a bigger and more expensive firework than all you hippies [01:47:23] <@snackbeard> tommstein: Yeah? [01:47:41] <@tommstein> yep, the biggest in the history of july the 4th. it was called discovery [01:48:00] <@tommstein> that was awesome [01:48:13] <@tommstein> as loud as a plane at an airport from 15 miles away [01:48:29] <@snackbeard> Ummm.... Is that a good thing? [01:48:37] <@tommstein> as long as you're 15 miles away [01:48:42] <@snackbeard> heh [01:48:45] <@tommstein> it's probably bad at the launch pad [01:48:59] <@tommstein> or the press area like 1.5 miles away [01:49:31] <@tommstein> hmm, 1.5 miles away it was 100 times louder than what i heard. i wonder if they make them wear earmuffs or something [01:49:44] <@snackbeard> I missed it.. TV was off. In fact, I feel like several days have passed since I was aware of anything outside of Pirate Party and IRC [01:49:53] Imagine being IN the thing :) [01:49:59] <@tommstein> snackbeard, that's because it has [01:50:15] <@tommstein> AdamG, hopefully the helmets have good sound protection or something [01:50:24] <@tommstein> or they'd all be deaf [01:52:13] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [01:52:23] <@tommstein> AdamG, i have the same problem in konqueror that you mentioned in the new forums [01:52:56] * tommstein thanks snackbeard, TheWizrd, and everyone else that helped bring the site to life [01:53:32] Oh, the site looks good. Great job all. [01:53:54] <@snackbeard> Hopefully we'll be working bugs out over the next few days [01:54:11] <@snackbeard> Smirnov and jsaxton played a big part too [01:54:55] * Phoenix is away, sleep [l/off][p/off] [01:55:43] <@tommstein> hurray Smirnov and jsaxton86 [01:56:12] <@tommstein> so we have no patent plank at this time? [01:56:32] <@snackbeard> Oh, and maxpa and his bud paul as well.. they were huge w/ the design... but they're not in here much [01:56:59] <@snackbeard> tommstein: Not at this time. We do have a net neutrality thing that isn't up yet though [01:57:03] <@tommstein> they made the logo, right? [01:57:21] <@snackbeard> logo, design, template. [01:57:46] <@tommstein> then they get a front-row seat at our first convention, and an extra cookie when we pass the cookie tray around [01:58:08] <@snackbeard> yes ;) [01:58:45] lol [01:59:00] i think ill be messing with inkscape at work tomorrow [02:00:04] <@snackbeard> inkscape? [02:00:17] SVG [02:00:25] <@tommstein> was the 4th part of our copyright stance fully thought out? besides the fact that i can envision ways to probably break the gpl if that were to ever pass, no one has told me how my "someone can put up a website that hosts copies of all books" theory isn't a problem [02:00:41] <@snackbeard> Ah... [02:01:01] <@snackbeard> tommstein: Isn't that the 3rd? Can you post the para in question? [02:01:23] <@tommstein> Fourth, we wish to cease the criminalization of noncommercial works distribution. [02:01:42] tommstein: there's a few reasons behind htat [02:01:51] <@tommstein> i think that what many people really want is to not be sued for casual copying, but if mass infringement is allowed, there's problems [02:02:08] <@tommstein> who's going to write a textbook? [02:02:21] one simple one is that it would require gross violations of citizen privacy to criminalize noncommercial works distribution [02:02:52] <@tommstein> not necessarily, unless i'm missing something in my "website scenario" [02:03:02] * obstructio (~rrasss@obstructio.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [02:03:19] for now, it's easy enough to subpoena the hosting provider and get the info then sue the guy [02:03:29] <@tommstein> pretty much any non-internet copying is going to be fine, but the internet throws a wrinkle into what can be done and how easily [02:03:52] <@tommstein> but what if the website is noncommercial, just hosting all the books? [02:03:56] but with the advent of anonP2P networks, the only way to control noncommercial p2p distribution will be to actually monitor the files on citizens' computers [02:04:19] it's totally unenforcable, and will increasingly become more so [02:04:44] <@tommstein> a lot of things are unenforceable in some circumstances, but there are other circumstances when they are [02:04:59] <@tommstein> like a website [02:05:03] * corevette (corevette@corevette.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [02:05:28] right, but it sets a dangerous precedent to say that it _should_ be illegal- by implication, those technologies enabling the supposed crime can be regulated [02:05:40] look at the torrent protocol [02:05:53] the pirate bay was taken down for _enabling_ access to copyrighted workd [02:06:01] <@tommstein> not necessarily. it's easy to say that something is illegal, but tools that allow it aren't [02:06:14] <@tommstein> taking the pirate bay down was wrong [02:06:26] <@tommstein> but i'm assuming we get our way [02:06:38] but increasingly, in the US, it would be legal... [02:06:50] with those DMCA V2 things out there... scary [02:07:05] <@tommstein> we need to get rid of the dmca too probably [02:07:32] absolutely, but it's a real uphill battle... I only realized that today [02:07:41] <@snackbeard> I might write up a DMCA position paper when I have a little time. [02:07:42] <@tommstein> everything we're doing is [02:08:02] I was talking with another regular highscooler, and it seemed he was under the impression that copyrights _should_ be eternal control over all uses [02:08:21] <@tommstein> oh yeah, that reminds me, i wrote a paper explaining my position on copyright for a class 2 years ago. could it be of use? (i don't even remember what i said at this point) [02:08:24] It's what people are being taught in schools nowadays, that eternal permission is forever needed [02:08:54] <@tommstein> like my dumbass brother, who yesterday informed me that you should be able to patent literally ANY IDEA, no matter how obvious [02:09:19] exactly- of those people who have any inking about IP, they tend to thing it's God's gift to man [02:09:43] <@tommstein> people who just want to be a pimple on society's ass [02:09:49] lol [02:09:49] <@tommstein> if allowed [02:10:23] <@snackbeard> tommstein: Yeah, e-mail it [02:11:05] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [02:11:05] * PirateBot sets mode: +ao TheWizrd TheWizrd [02:11:24] <@tommstein> but back to what i was saying about books, who's going to write, say, a textbook if someone can legally put it on a website and have millions of students download it, as you know the word will spread faster than chlamydia on campuses everywhere? [02:11:36] <@tommstein> snackbeard, at the regular e-mail address? [02:11:44] <@snackbeard> tommstein: yup [02:12:31] tommstein: I honestly don't think it'll be a problem. [02:13:21] again, look at librarires. People still buy books, even when they can be borrowed(or downloaded, for that matter) for free [02:13:35] <@TheWizrd> look at the copy machine [02:13:44] why? something to leave to the psychologists. But people still buy books. [02:14:10] <@TheWizrd> i personally prefer hard content to reading it off a computer screen [02:14:29] <@tommstein> snackbeard, sent [02:14:37] <@snackbeard> thnks [02:15:14] <@tommstein> the difference between a library and downloading a copy of a book is that you don't get to keep the library's copy [02:15:41] ok i have a question [02:15:51] <@tommstein> but you know that students aren't going to mind saving $500 per semester even if they have to read books on their computers [02:16:07] tommstein: College textbooks represent a special case [02:16:09] <@TheWizrd> I would personally buy the textbooks [02:16:11] the pirate party claims they cannot be placed on the left and right scale......so where are they on the political compass? [02:16:13] <@tommstein> the copy machine takes a lot of time and paper money, compared to a website at least [02:16:29] <@tommstein> TheWizrd, me too, but most wouldn't [02:16:34] mainly because the profs who write the textbooks are trying to squeeze every penny out of their students [02:16:45] so really, I have no sympathy for them :) [02:16:59] <@tommstein> AdamG, so you'd rather that professors cease writing textbooks? [02:17:10] <@tommstein> that's not good [02:17:10] <@TheWizrd> If they reduced textbook prices and downloading was legal I stillthink many would buy the book [02:17:18] <@TheWizrd> not cease [02:17:18] tommstein: I'd prefer that profs stopped using them as a source of income [02:17:24] it basically corrupts the system [02:17:38] <@TheWizrd> I have a $400 physics textbook sitting next to me [02:17:48] <@tommstein> AdamG, how so? writing, checking, publishing, and revising a textbook can be expensive [02:17:49] <@snackbeard> corevette: We are the needle, pointing towards truth. [02:17:49] <@TheWizrd> no textbook that is 800 pages is worth $400 [02:17:54] <@snackbeard> corevette: or something [02:17:56] the way it works is *every* notable prof writes his own book and makes it required [02:18:05] and then gets a nice little bundle from that [02:18:15] snackbeard, yes i agree it points towards truth...but which way is truth [02:18:18] <@TheWizrd> textbooks are VERY overpriced [02:18:24] <@TheWizrd> publishers themselves admit that [02:18:34] <@tommstein> TheWizrd, i'm obessive towards my books too. i still have every book i've ever used, in as close to pristine condition as possible. but i'm a minority [02:18:57] <@TheWizrd> corevette: Thats for you to decide [02:19:15] <@tommstein> TheWizrd, but what if making textbooks not-overpriced makes people stop writing them? [02:19:32] <@TheWizrd> tomm: it won't [02:19:33] I'd find college textbooks are basically ideal for noncommercial redistribution... yes, the publishers and the profs wouldn't benefit. But the _students_ would, and that's what should matter [02:19:55] thewizrd, it really shouldn't be.......the reason of creating a political party is to grab people attention through where they stand...not for where you decide to stand [02:19:58] <@tommstein> not when no one is updating or writing new textbooks [02:19:59] <@TheWizrd> see but that can not be done [02:20:12] <@TheWizrd> printing costs, editing, etc [02:20:13] thewizrd, you will not get any suppost if you tell them to decide on your own [02:20:16] tommstein: profs will update textbooks when they need to be updates [02:20:19] *updated [02:20:40] <@snackbeard> corevette: Personally, I think the libertarians have it right in a lot of ways, but they are too focused on corporate rights. The greens have it right in a lot of ways, but I think they get distracted from protecting individual liberty enough. Other parties.. well who knows. But anyway, we really can't be put on a scale or chart. [02:20:50] <@tommstein> corevette, we'll get people that are more interested in our issues than meaningless labels [02:21:20] <@TheWizrd> corevette: I'm not here totell you what the truth is, I'm here because I'm acting on what I believe the truth to be. I can not make you believe what I believe, only show you logical arguments in support of it. [02:21:21] <@tommstein> AdamG, maybe updates, since that' [02:21:26] <@tommstein> that's not as hard, but new books? [02:21:51] tommstein: With liberlized copyright laws, profs would be able to incorporate more from older texts [02:22:08] more stuff would be PD, thus there would be more material to work with [02:22:09] <@TheWizrd> if it still applies why not? [02:22:48] <@tommstein> AdamG, the effort in creating a textbook isn't finding material (that's what research journals are for), it's putting it together in a good way [02:23:28] tommstein: the bazaar works better than the cathedral in that manner [02:23:37] <@snackbeard> tommstein: Was it a philosophy class? [02:24:00] <@tommstein> snackbeard, an "ethics in science and technology" or something like that class. it sucked [02:24:09] <@tommstein> snackbeard, at least i got to write a paper i enjoyed [02:24:30] <@tommstein> AdamG, i don't think the bazaar writes textbooks [02:24:44] <@snackbeard> tommstein: Sucked? that sounds awesome [02:24:46] <@tommstein> AdamG, or proofreads them, or edits them, or much else [02:24:50] They write encyclopedias :) [02:25:05] <@snackbeard> AdamG: Don't get him started on wikipedia [02:25:24] <@tommstein> snackbeard, in theory it would have been. in practice, we had some militant peta militant lady running the class [02:25:46] <@tommstein> wow, i can't wrote tonight either [02:25:51] <@tommstein> she was doubly militant [02:26:18] well, the idea of liberalized copyright laws is that the commons does better than the copyright holder [02:26:32] <@tommstein> AdamG, what snackbeard said. i've expressed what i think of wikipedia pretty clearly in a thread in the old forum [02:27:08] eh, well, I missed that. Regardless of quality, it's still an impressive collection of information, in terms of size if nothing else [02:27:24] <@tommstein> snackbeard, i think one of the "militants" was supposed to be "feminist" [02:27:33] speaking of....should we set up a pirate party of u.s. wiki? [02:27:51] <@tommstein> AdamG, whereas textbooks strive (or had better strive) for quality and accuracy, not size [02:28:14] Tommstein: except where they strive for higher costs. Which happens alot. [02:28:43] <@tommstein> wikipedia is noted for its anti-elitism. but 20 dumbasses do not make one expert, contrary to the wikipedia philosophy [02:29:10] <@tommstein> AdamG, but i'd prefer an expensive, quality textbook than a cheap crappy one [02:29:21] No, but they might know better how to explain it to a 21'st dumass. [02:29:43] <@tommstein> let's put it this way: would you feel confident, as you're about to go under anaesthesia, if your doctor had learned his stuff from something comparable to wikipedia? [02:29:59] <@tommstein> expert knowledge is a commodity [02:30:08] <@tommstein> that must be paid for [02:30:14] Expertise is a commodity [02:30:18] <@tommstein> sometimes to excessive degrees, but still [02:30:36] but a textbook most definitely needs not be a commodity [02:30:47] the seats in the class with the esteemed professor, sure [02:31:10] but why can't I read the textbook just for fun? That's what MIT is doing with it's open courseware [02:31:13] <@tommstein> or how about if you were going to blast off on the shuttle's replacement, and the people that built it learned their stuff from wikipedia instead of one of those overpriced textbooks [02:31:33] they're acknowledging that it's the classroom, and not the textbook, that is of value [02:31:43] <@tommstein> what happens when you get an incompetent professor? how about learning on one's own? [02:32:10] tommstein: learning on one's own is another advantage of legalized noncommercial redistribution [02:32:32] <@tommstein> AdamG, from books that weren't produced by experts? [02:32:40] it forces educational institutions to compete against one another in teaching skills, while all institutions can use the "best" books [02:32:53] tommstein: no one ever said anything about not having textbooks be produced by experts [02:33:34] <@tommstein> AdamG, i think you've been advocating textbooks being produced by the bazaar instead of the cathedral [02:33:51] <@tommstein> while people code for fun, they do not write textbooks for fun [02:33:52] tommstein: I've been saying they'res nothing wrong with throwing a copy into the bazaar [02:33:54] <@tommstein> let alone good ones [02:34:24] profs can still write their books- but why must it be illegal to distribute their work noncommercially? [02:34:37] particularly when doing so would so greatly benefit the public? [02:34:56] that is, after all, what we idealists in the PPUSA think copyright law should be about... [02:35:11] <@tommstein> because of this: no one is going to write a textbook that they will sell one copy of and people will download the other million from a website [02:35:43] If they intend to keep teaching classes, I think they will [02:36:00] <@tommstein> but the public isn't benefited when there aren't textbooks being written (by experts at least) [02:36:19] Why wouldn't textbooks be written? [02:36:20] <@tommstein> why will someone write a textbook if they want to teach? most professors don't write textbooks [02:36:31] <@tommstein> because of this: no one is going to write a textbook that they will sell one copy of and people will download the other million from a website [02:36:47] sure they would, because they need it in their classes- or at least, one would hope they do [02:37:13] if they don't, then why are they writing the book in the first place? Pure profit motive? Sorry- textbooks should be written to teach [02:37:15] <@tommstein> the vast, vast majority of professors don't write the textbooks for their classes [02:37:51] <@tommstein> AdamG, that may be idealistic, but people aren't going to write textbooks without the profit motive [02:38:13] <@tommstein> AdamG, the same as they don't do much else if it's not made worth their while [02:38:29] tommstein: having a good textbook is well worth a prof's while [02:39:10] <@tommstein> most professors don't write their textbooks, again [02:39:30] <@tommstein> some don't use them at all, for that matter, just notes [02:39:33] not to mention, part of the reason that profs don't write their own books is the high costs associated with publishing it [02:39:46] noncommercial redistribution deals with that nicely [02:39:58] <@tommstein> yes, exactly, publishing is expensive. who's going to do it for free? [02:40:21] no one. The prof will put it as a PDF, and students will download it. [02:40:40] except those who want a print version, who will buy a print version from a publisher, working for a profit motive [02:40:41] <@tommstein> no, he'll use halfass powerpoint notes [02:41:12] <@tommstein> writing a book is expensive. the paper is probably a minor cost [02:41:25] <@tommstein> it's the effort in preparing the words, formulas, etc. that is hard [02:41:46] Lots of the costs are there because of the restrictions that are put in place by the copyright system [02:42:14] there's no reason the prof can't post the book as a wiki a year before putting a final PDF version (don't jump on me yet) [02:42:47] the actual _content_ of the book need not be changed, but things like typesetting, proofreading, edting etc can be done by interested parties (fellow profs, students, etc) [02:43:34] so I'm _not_ talking about bazaar development of textbooks here- just using collaborative editing to offset the job that a publisher and editor typically do [02:43:43] <@snackbeard> Guys, I can't stay up anymore. Good night & Good luck ;) [02:43:49] <@tommstein> so you propose that the entire publishing industry be replaced with volunteers running off of love, basically? [02:43:53] later... [02:43:54] <@tommstein> snackbeard, good night [02:44:02] * snackbeard is now known as snackbeard-sleep [02:44:14] Why not? [02:44:40] <@tommstein> AdamG, because while that is idealistic, i don't think it's realistic, especially if you want quality [02:44:51] I think it's certainly worth a try :) [02:45:11] <@tommstein> but why would the professor write a textbook even in wiki style, instead of just using whatever halfass powerpoint notes he's got? [02:45:37] cause he wants tenure?? [02:45:42] <@tommstein> writing a textbook is hard in any style, halfass powerpoint notes, not so much [02:46:07] <@tommstein> writing a textbook isn't required for tenure [02:46:07] yeah, but textbooks are what the community (meaning fellow profs and students) want [02:46:58] tommstein:I'm not saying textbooks should become the bar for tenure, but they're certainly ways onc ecould establish oneself. [02:47:01] <@tommstein> why does the professor care what the community wants? normally, it's because he can profit from it. but remove the profit motive, and why would have give a crap whether some other professor somewhere wants him to write a book for free? [02:47:20] <@tommstein> i can't type [02:47:37] yeah... 'tis late for me too, and I've still got an assignment to do... [02:47:46] <@TheWizrd> me too [02:47:52] tell you what, I'll give you a raincheck for finishing this convo sometime [02:47:56] <@TheWizrd> I'm juststarting on my hw due in 8 hours [02:48:02] <@tommstein> shoot man, it's probably better to work on that than having this discussion this instant [02:48:16] <@TheWizrd> i spent all day on the ppusa site [02:48:20] 8 hours? lucky bastard... [02:48:21] <@tommstein> TheWizrd, that's my style, except you're starting way too early [02:48:33] <@TheWizrd> but it was way to fun :) [02:48:47] <@tommstein> AdamG, yeah, we can continue some other time, but i suspect we're not likely to get anywhere [02:49:04] I'm the idealist. I'm sure you'll see the light sooner or later :P [02:49:12] <@TheWizrd> lol [02:49:13] <@tommstein> AdamG, it's probably the thing where one of us will have a eureka moment, or continue believing as we do [02:49:40] <@tommstein> i'm the realist. money makes the world go around, and professors write textbooks [02:49:41] yup yup... such it goes [02:50:13] * corevette (corevette@corevette.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [02:50:34] <@tommstein> i've got assignments to work on too actually, they're just not due in a few hours, so i won't start them until then probably [02:51:08] <@TheWizrd> lol [02:51:42] <@tommstein> by the way TheWizrd, i don't think you were around when i thanked everyone that made the site, so thanks [02:52:17] * TheWizrd changes topic to '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ http://www.pirate-party.us/ ]' [02:52:21] <@TheWizrd> 'welcome [02:56:30] <@tommstein> hurray, we're for the repealing of the patriot act(s). go us [02:57:05] <@tommstein> but not the dmca? am i missing it? [02:57:24] they're seperate portions, originaly written by different authors... [02:57:30] <@TheWizrd> yes [02:58:08] and I meant to imply it in the first section of the part on copyright reform [02:58:27] <@tommstein> where's it at? i don't see it [02:58:57] "repeal the many, mostly harmful, copyrights acts... after the Copyright Act of 1790" [02:59:24] including the Digital Millenium Copyright Act [03:00:10] <@tommstein> ah, i see. i was looking for mention of the dmca specifically. it may be a good thing to single that one out for special mention (or maybe not) [03:00:25] <@tommstein> especially considering our constituency [03:01:02] yeah, makes sense [03:01:02] <@TheWizrd> we will def deal with the dmca as that is one of my fav issues [03:01:46] <@tommstein> i have the dmca printed on the back of one of my decss shirts, whichever one it was that had it [03:14:23] <@tommstein> you know what else? i'm pretty sure that allowing unlimited noncommercial distribution of copyrighted stuff would make the gpl unenforceable, since you wouldn't be able to revoke someone's right to distribute your program ("noncommercially") if noncommercial distribution is invariably allowed without regard to what the copyright holder says. not that we have to argue about that right now... [03:15:26] hmmm... but the issue with the GPL is bastards like SCOgroup trying to sell it. [03:15:51] * Pr0n (~slickidio@THX-F02623BA.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #USpirateparty [03:18:26] <@tommstein> what could (would?) happen is that people wouldn't have to share their changes to the software, because the copyright holder is powerless to revoke the right to distribute the software as long as the violator can make some kind of claim that they are distributing the program "noncommercially" [03:19:19] <@tommstein> and i don't mean a good argument, i mean any halfass "they're paying $4,000 dollars for a plate of food, not donating it to my campaign" argument [03:20:23] I see the danger, but whatever company was distributing the code in violation of the GPL couldn't keep everyone else from legally noncommercially distributing the software either [03:20:38] * Anon949 (~Anon949@THX-A1CAC3DD.tallye.com) Quit (Quit: Anon949) [03:23:03] <@tommstein> but the point of the gpl is that source code has to be distributed with the software, so that if you modify my program, you have to share the source code [03:23:50] <@tommstein> it's not about "free as in beer," it's about "free as in freedom" [03:24:21] <@tommstein> but that whole noncommercial thing screws that [03:25:16] right. but we get into enforcability again here. [03:26:01] If I take GPL code, modify it as I wish, then compile and distribute it over an anon p2p network... how does govn't/FSF/whoever stop me? [03:27:04] <@tommstein> no law in the world can be enforced 100% of the time. the issue is about what to do when it actually can be enforced. by that reasoning, why criminalize murder, since you can't catch all murderers? [03:27:45] <@tommstein> microsoft could provide a "free" version of linux for download and not share any changes with anyone [03:29:12] but they couldn't keep their free version from being distributed, either. [03:29:49] <@tommstein> but that has little or nothing to do with the point of the gpl. the gpl would still become unenforceable [03:30:05] I think the question is more in the present tense [03:30:16] "is the GPL unenforcable?" [03:30:59] <@tommstein> the present? i'm considering what would happen if the noncommercial thing were to come to pass [03:31:01] at the basic level, we're going to have to accept that with anything, a user should be able to modify and distribute those modified copies. It's basically impossible to restrict that [03:31:53] it's the same thing with home taping... whether it's illegal is a moot point; it's unenforcable [03:32:57] well, hopefully it's unemforcable [03:33:16] <@tommstein> every law is unenforeable if you don't catch 100% of violators. it doesn't mean you can't enforce it whenever possible. but i think that making the gpl unenforceable is going to chop off support for the party at the knees [03:33:52] It's hardly making the GPL unemforcable. any more than blank CD-R's make the GPL unemforcable [03:34:37] <@tommstein> i think we're going in circles [03:36:05] we're basically saying that the internet can be treated like a neighborhood... just like the FSF would be crazy to go after someone for giving a neighbor modified copy of linux to a neighbor and not providing all the upstream code, it wouldn't make any sense to the FSF to try and stop distribution of GPL'd binaries over the internet [03:36:18] *many many mistakes [03:37:58] <@tommstein> not so. my whole point is making a distinction between mass copying and regular copying. giving a copy of linux to your neighbor is the latter. internet distribution to all is the former [03:39:11] ok... well, I don't think the distinction should be drawn... but I'll have to get back to you on this [03:40:22] <@tommstein> that's the only distinction that i care about. i agree that regular noncommercial copying should be legalized. it's mass distribution that i think is problematic [03:40:31] <@tommstein> but yes, you have important stuff to do right now [03:44:14] * Trampish_ (~Trampish@THX-6FF872B3.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #USpirateparty (Trampish Trampish_) [03:44:38] <@TheWizrd> Hello [03:44:47] * Trampish (~Trampish@THX-6FF872B3.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout) [Trampish Trampish_] [03:44:52] <@TheWizrd> Goodbye [03:45:34] <@tommstein> was it my body odor? [03:45:35] later all.. gots to unplug [03:45:38] * AdamG (~AdamG@THX-78B1D448.clt.bellsouth.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [03:51:50] * SeLfkiLL (~a@THX-22170E11.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [03:52:47] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [04:04:56] <@tommstein> hmm, so we only seek to repeal some parts of the patriot act(s), not the whole thing(s)? [04:08:54] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [04:08:55] * PirateBot sets mode: +ao TheWizrd TheWizrd [04:23:25] <@tommstein> so we only seek to repeal some parts of the patriot act(s), not the whole thing(s)? [04:30:34] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit:) [04:58:12] * mitb (~mitb@THX-C205E868.sb.sd.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [05:10:26] <@tommstein> is it just me, or do the new forums suck the big one compared to the old ones? [05:35:32] * suckacracka (~suckacrac@D3DED32D.8407174B.30630034.IP) has joined #USpirateparty [05:35:39] yay! the site is up [05:42:26] i dig the new site [05:47:29] * Tarnaxx|Away (Munchy@Tarnaxx.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [05:48:54] * SeLfkiLL (~a@THX-22170E11.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #USpirateparty [06:02:09] * Dawudd (Dawudd@THX-FEB77AC6.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #USpirateparty [06:02:17] * Dawudd (Dawudd@THX-FEB77AC6.dyn.optonline.net) has left #USpirateparty [06:09:26] * elsebasbe (~saile_reg@A2382CDC.7210B7A0.2D54E357.IP) has joined #USpirateparty [06:16:59] * suckacracka (~suckacrac@D3DED32D.8407174B.30630034.IP) Quit (Client exited) [06:40:42] * SeLfkiLL (~a@THX-22170E11.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [07:03:00] Georgia (font) makes ‘0’ the same height and width of lowercase glyphs, so on the “Get Involved” page it looks like irc.echelon.net instead of echel0n.. [07:03:16] just thought i'd point that out, it could possibly confuse people that don't copy&paste [07:06:01] oh, and on the contact page too [07:06:39] * mitb (~mitb@THX-C205E868.sb.sd.cox.net) has joined #USpirateparty [07:19:23] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [07:19:57] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [07:25:17] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [07:29:12] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [07:32:15] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [07:35:04] * starkbot (~starkbot@THX-53500E98.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #USpirateparty [07:42:35] * Anon493 (~Anon493@THX-44D81691.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #USpirateparty [07:44:35] * halonine|sleep (~halo@halo.halosrealm.com) Quit (Quit:) [07:44:52] * Anon493 (~Anon493@THX-44D81691.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) Quit (Quit: Anon493) [07:51:23] * suckacracka (~suckacrac@D3DED32D.8407174B.30630034.IP) has joined #USpirateparty [07:54:39] * suckacracka (~suckacrac@D3DED32D.8407174B.30630034.IP) Quit (Client exited) [07:56:14] * suckacracka (~suckacrac@suckacracka.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [08:25:07] http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060701/ap_on_bi_ge/mexico_internet_piracy [08:37:46] * SeLfkiLL (~a@THX-22170E11.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #USpirateparty [09:19:40] * halonine (~halo@halo.halosrealm.com) has joined #USpirateparty [09:22:32] * Smirnov (~igor@THX-BBE09DB5.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) has joined #USpirateparty [09:23:26] MORNING [09:23:26] <2Smirnov> 0M [09:23:29] * Smirnov is now known as Smirnov|laptop [09:23:56] * Smirnov (~Smirnovd@Smirnov.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [09:23:57] * PirateBot sets mode: +v Smirnov [09:25:02] Oh shit north korea fired 7 test missiles?! [09:34:05] Yah where have you been? :_) [09:34:16] umm sleeping [09:34:25] * Pr0n (~slickidio@THX-F02623BA.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [09:37:04] lol [09:37:20] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [09:39:41] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [09:55:10] * Kuja (~Kuja@THX-F4EC26AB.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #USpirateparty [09:55:21] Woot. [09:56:04] woot [09:56:07] or rather, Harr. [09:57:30] eww, it's unreal. icky. [10:02:09] * Smirnov is now known as Smirnov|awa6y [10:02:13] * Smirnov|awa6y is now known as Smirnov|away [10:37:04] * box|xp (~boxgamex@THX-BC972423.fuse.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [10:45:23] * nbx909 (~nbx909@THX-B431384.adv.11083-int.pentagon.mil) has joined #USpirateparty [10:45:23] * PirateBot sets mode: +qo nbx909 nbx909 [10:50:26] * Kuja (~Kuja@THX-F4EC26AB.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit (Client exited) [10:50:50] <@nbx909> yay! that idiot removed the netscan [10:50:50] <@nbx909> lol [10:52:52] * AdamG (~AdamG@THX-78B1D448.clt.bellsouth.net) has joined #USpirateparty [10:53:16] <14ninex> *yawn* [10:53:46] <7jake> ninex. [10:53:51] <14ninex> mornin [10:54:02] i'll be over at your place in an hour or so [10:54:06] <14ninex> oh [10:54:55] * Smirnov (~ryan@Smirnov.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty (Smirnov|away Smirnov) [10:54:56] * PirateBot sets mode: +v Smirnov [10:55:35] <+Smirnov> morning [10:55:41] * Smirnov is now known as Smirnov|work [10:56:03] <+Smirnov|work> Anyone read the one about Google and net neutrality? nice [10:56:10] <14ninex> yeah [10:56:35] Yah, they have a nice vested interest in it though. [10:56:44] Just like any other engine. [10:56:48] <+Smirnov|work> o shit [10:56:52] <+Smirnov|work> obviously [10:57:05] <@nbx909> yeah [10:57:05] <+Smirnov|work> its when the vested interests cross that of the public when the good stuff happens [10:57:15] Ready to upload OpenRelay-backdoor.vspam 0.3 (0.003 Gb). [10:57:20] <@nbx909> wtf [10:57:27] o.0 [10:57:28] who doesn't love these 'hax simulations'[ [10:57:29] :\ [10:57:32] <+Smirnov|work> ow they make their spam big nowadays [10:57:32] www.slavehack.com [10:57:35] <@nbx909> jake, stop that [10:57:40] <+Smirnov|work> thats a whopping 300 kb [10:57:40] k, but its funnn [10:57:44] at least it wastes a lot of time [10:57:45] <@nbx909> no more pasting that stuff [10:57:47] k [10:57:56] <@nbx909> i was loading up a gline for you [10:57:56] <@nbx909> lol [10:58:07] lol why [10:58:08] :< [10:58:24] <@nbx909> lets see backdoor maybe? [10:58:24] <@nbx909> lol [10:58:31] haha [10:58:32] its just a game :< [10:58:37] but it seriously wastes time [10:58:44] i need lunch [10:58:49] <+Smirnov|work> gline's a bit harsh dont you think ? start with a kline [10:58:52] * jake >/etc/deli & [10:59:11] <+Smirnov|work> jake: type in dd if=/dev/zero of=dev/sda for a surprise [10:59:33] <14ninex> lol [10:59:40] odd, not wokring [10:59:43] dev/sda isnt a valid location or something [10:59:51] <+Smirnov|work> oh my bad its /dev/sda i forgot the / [10:59:57] <14ninex> lol [11:00:06] nonexistant [11:00:09] <+Smirnov|work> you have to be root to use the command [11:00:12] i am root [11:00:16] <+Smirnov|work> and if you are using sata type in /dev/hda [11:00:20] <+Smirnov|work> errr are you using sata or ide [11:00:30] <+Smirnov|work> ide put in /dev/hda, sata put in /dev/sda [11:00:35] /dev/ad0s1f [11:00:42] <+Smirnov|work> hm [11:00:55] <14ninex> cat /dev/random > /dev/sound [11:00:58] and btw, trying to zero other peoples drives is my job :P [11:01:03] <+Smirnov|work> hahaha [11:01:31] <7jake> ninex; 2.6.17.3 kernel sounds pretty decent actually [11:01:37] <14ninex> lol [11:01:45] * halonine points Smirnov to web channel :_) [11:02:24] on another note, i'm currently on windows :P [11:02:27] playing counterstrike [11:02:47] <+Smirnov|work> oh we can think of a windows command too [11:03:17] i like the obligatory dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/ [11:03:21] <+Smirnov|work> i need to remember to zero my laptop's harddrive before turning it in at work :P [11:03:30] how much porn do you keep on that thing? [11:03:39] <+Smirnov|work> none.. [11:03:43] i believe ya :P [11:03:48] anyone here good in cs :\ [11:03:52] i need some help w/scout [11:03:58] <+Smirnov|work> if i did that it wouldnt help me CAUASE THEY'd HAVE WEB LOGS [11:03:58] actually, sniping overall [11:04:08] smirnov, unsecured wifi [11:04:09] :p [11:04:12] <+Smirnov|work> aim for the head [11:04:15] well durr [11:04:17] but the thing is [11:04:20] i have a bad habit [11:04:21] <+Smirnov|work> no durr [11:04:22] whenever i snipe [11:04:25] <+Smirnov|work> if you dont aim for the head with the scout you die [11:04:28] i never look behind me ora nayhthing [11:04:34] i just look straight ahead [11:04:37] <+Smirnov|work> so? [11:04:41] <+Smirnov|work> dont zoom in until you get a target [11:04:43] usually results in someone jumpong on my head deciding which wep to use [11:05:52] <14ninex> jake: try this :(){ :|:& };: [11:06:02] i'm using tcsh [11:06:03] <+Smirnov|work> thats the oldest trick in the book [11:06:06] because it looks cuter [11:06:12] and no, perl isn't installed atm [11:06:16] <+Smirnov|work> and he's not on windows [11:06:19] <+Smirnov|work> err linux [11:06:25] <14ninex> rofl [11:06:33] <14ninex> apparently tcsh is windows now? [11:06:39] <+Smirnov|work> i'm telling you dont zoom in until you have a target and try to pick a place where people cant sneak up behind you [11:06:57] <+Smirnov|work> and if you cant hear someone running up behidn you in your headphones, you got issues [11:07:19] <14ninex> i cant hear anything in my headphones [11:07:33] <14ninex> besides music :P [11:07:49] i play music while i cs [11:07:52] and i turn off cs's sounds ;x [11:07:57] <14ninex> haha same here [11:08:24] <+Smirnov|work> then you die [11:08:29] np: Armin Van Buuren - 76.flac [11:08:49] <+Smirnov|work> people have been playing CS for most of their life, do you expect them to just take it easy on you cause you're playing music [11:08:54] ..yes? [11:09:00] because i'm a nice little boy :) [11:09:15] -> *01$active* mp3: first and andre - widescreen (original mix) -- 59.1Mb 6:58 FLAC [11:09:18] * ninex mp3: first and andre - widescreen (original mix) -- 59.1Mb 6:58 FLAC [11:09:21] <14ninex> XD [11:10:08] <7jake> reminds me ninex [11:10:09] how's the gf [11:10:28] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [11:10:46] <14ninex> lol [11:10:48] <14ninex> im single [11:18:21] * Erik (~fdorothy@Erik.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [11:18:31] <+Smirnov|work> hey [11:18:41] <+Smirnov|work> Is anyone here not an early adopter of the website yet? [11:18:42] Hey guys, can someone get my ip masked...? [11:19:13] And the new site is awesome. :) [11:20:19] <@nbx909> Erik, it is [11:20:23] <@nbx909> Erik (~fdorothy@Erik.users.echel0n.net) [11:20:26] <@nbx909> by defult [11:20:27] <@nbx909> er [11:20:34] <@nbx909> after register a nick [11:20:46] My nick is registered. [11:20:56] <@nbx909> yes [11:21:01] <@nbx909> so it is masked [11:21:16] fdorothy@Erik.users.echel0n.net is what we see [11:21:23] <@nbx909> if you want a personalized hostmask send a request to hostserv [11:21:27] Oh, ok. That's not what I see, but I guess it's different. [11:21:38] <+Smirnov|work> Can I get my host @ pirate-party.us :) [11:21:47] <14ninex> brb Session Start: Wed Jul 05 11:33:19 2006 Session Ident: #USpirateparty [11:33:19] * Now talking in #USpirateparty [11:33:19] * Topic is '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ New site design is up! http://www.pirate-party.us/ ]' [11:33:19] * Set by nbx909 on Wed Jul 05 11:32:24 3[11:33:19] * Created Mon Jun 26 03:03:12 2006 [11:33:21] * nbx909 changes topic to '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ http://www.pirate-party.us/ ]' [11:34:16] <14ninex> lol [11:35:01] yaaaay [11:35:10] <14ninex> on the timezone part, you might want to give the traditional forms like EST, PST, GMT-X etc. [11:35:36] <@nbx909> don't post it to digg [11:35:51] <@nbx909> or slashdot [11:36:09] <@nbx909> we want regular users to test it 1st [11:39:06] <14ninex> and also try to be formal, meaning capitalize the first letter of each word on the user sidebar part of the page [11:39:25] So, when will there be a CafePress or SpreadShirt store setup so we can buy T-shirts? :P [11:39:27] <7+Smirnov|work> ninex: post that in the web issues forum [11:39:39] <14ninex> i dont like forums :P [11:39:41] * nbx909 changes topic to '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ The new design is up but DO NOT POST TO DIGG OR SLASHDOT OR ANY OTHER NEWS SITE http://www.pirate-party.us/ ]' [11:39:52] <+Smirnov|work> thats where it goes if you want it to be taken care of [11:40:12] <+Smirnov|work> for the timezones I don't even know if there's any way ... you should remember your offset anyway [11:40:22] <+Smirnov|work> the default is central [11:40:28] <14ninex> noo noo [11:40:42] <14ninex> look at the way they do the timezone picker [11:41:17] * nbx909 changes topic to '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ The new design is up but %C05 DO NOT POST TO DIGG OR SLASHDOT OR ANY OTHER NEWS SITE %C01 http://www.pirate-party.us/ ]' [11:41:20] <@nbx909> asdfasf [11:41:31] <14ninex> lol [11:41:34] * nbx909 changes topic to '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ The new design is up but DO NOT POST TO DIGG OR SLASHDOT OR ANY OTHER NEWS SITE http://www.pirate-party.us/ ]' [11:41:40] <@nbx909> color codes hate me [11:41:41] <@nbx909> lol [11:41:45] <14ninex> 5DO NOT POST TO DIGG OR SLASHDOT OR ANY OTHER NEWS SITE [11:41:51] * ninex wins [11:42:06] <@nbx909> did you post it to digg? [11:42:10] <14ninex> no [11:42:14] <@nbx909> good... [11:42:14] <14ninex> stop being so paranoid [11:42:18] <14ninex> lol [11:42:25] <@nbx909> okay [11:42:31] <14ninex> i dont post things :P [11:42:43] <@Echelon> why are you guys so paranoid. [11:43:19] <14ninex> because scientology is on the loose :( [11:43:29] <@nbx909> we want to test it before we get 1,000 people hitting it per second [11:43:31] <@nbx909> lol [11:45:39] <@Echelon> stupid scientology. [11:45:49] <14ninex> shhh, they might be watching [11:45:49] <@Echelon> aint gettin' my money@$@!# [11:46:07] <@Echelon> they're going to send tom cruise to come jump on my couches? [11:46:20] <14ninex> no, worse [11:46:22] * Anon367 (~Anon367@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [11:46:24] <@Echelon> ... [11:46:26] <@Echelon> naked? [11:46:27] * Anon367 (~Anon367@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon367) [11:46:28] <14ninex> :( [11:46:32] <14ninex> lol [11:46:49] <@nbx909> hah [11:46:58] <14ninex> [11:46:22] * Anon367 (~Anon367@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [11:46:58] <14ninex> [11:46:24] <@Echelon> ... [11:46:58] <14ninex> [11:46:26] <@Echelon> naked? [11:46:58] <14ninex> [11:46:27] * Anon367 (~Anon367@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon367) [11:47:12] <@Echelon> that would be nbx909. [11:47:25] <14ninex> XD [11:47:26] <@nbx909> yes [11:47:33] <@nbx909> i was testing the java applet on the new site [11:47:34] <@nbx909> lol [11:47:46] <@nbx909> making sure it still worked [11:47:55] <@Echelon> of course [11:48:14] <@Echelon> on the contact page [11:48:21] <@Echelon> the irc server listed on it is not in correct. [11:48:29] <@Echelon> tis irc.echel0n.net, not echelon.net [11:48:34] <@Echelon> echelon.net is some twat business [11:48:43] <@nbx909> okay [11:49:01] <14ninex> it all goes to the same place [11:49:04] <14ninex> XD [11:49:27] <14ninex> actually it is correct [11:49:31] <@nbx909> yeah [11:49:33] <14ninex> it just looks like an o [11:49:33] <@nbx909> it is correct [11:49:39] <14ninex> c/p: irc.echel0n.net [11:49:42] <@Echelon> oh [11:49:44] <@Echelon> odd. [11:49:45] <@Echelon> rofl [11:49:49] <@nbx909> yeah the font 0 like an o [11:49:53] <14ninex> change the font :D [11:49:57] <@Echelon> nah. [11:50:05] <14ninex> looks like a blog [11:50:06] <@nbx909> i just noticed when i was typing it in [11:50:08] <@nbx909> i'm like wtf [11:50:09] <@nbx909> lol [11:50:20] <@nbx909> irc.echel0n.net [11:50:21] <@nbx909> yep [11:50:29] <@nbx909> that was copied and pasted [11:51:28] <@Echelon> hrm [11:51:37] <@Echelon> I think ill dj this morning. [11:51:58] <14ninex> what genre do you dj [11:52:01] <@Echelon> rock. [11:52:03] <14ninex> :\ [11:52:11] <@Echelon> lemme guess, you like the rap? [11:52:13] <14ninex> no [11:52:15] <14ninex> rap sucks [11:52:16] <14ninex> rofl [11:52:19] <@Echelon> oh good ;p [11:52:23] <14ninex> trance :P [11:52:25] * Anon440 (~Anon440@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [11:52:26] <@Echelon> ahh [11:52:30] * Anon440 (~Anon440@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon440) [11:52:49] * Anon696 (~Anon696@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [11:52:51] <@Echelon> yeah, the station i dj for is a rock station [11:52:55] <@nbx909> wtf [11:52:57] * Anon696 (~Anon696@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon696) [11:52:59] <@nbx909> adsfdasf [11:53:09] <14ninex> nbx909: instead of Anon??? why not Pirate??? :P [11:53:16] <@nbx909> hit open with firefox [11:53:17] <@Echelon> and now im on. [11:53:27] <@nbx909> instead of gedit [11:53:28] <@nbx909> lol [11:53:29] <@Echelon> quite honestly, why dont you guys write a page [11:53:30] msg hostserv request The.Grim.Pirate. [11:53:34] yar [11:53:35] <14ninex> Echelon: what station [11:53:36] <@Echelon> so they can enter in what nickname they want [11:53:43] <@Echelon> Unreal Radio. [11:53:57] <14ninex> heh [11:54:06] <14ninex> if you ever need a trance dj... ;) [11:54:19] <@Echelon> lol [11:54:31] <@Echelon> well, there's a trance station syndicated with us i believe [11:54:35] <@Echelon> but we dont manage it [11:54:38] * Anon282 (~Anon282@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [11:54:42] <@Echelon> its under different management [11:54:45] <@Echelon> but under our server [11:54:45] -> [Anon282] VERSION [11:54:45] [Anon282 VERSION reply]: PJIRC 2.1.1 [11:54:58] <14ninex> unrealradio.org right? [11:55:11] <@Echelon> yea [11:55:18] crap relative links suck when you are trying to create a page off server [11:55:19] lol [11:55:21] * Anon282 (~Anon282@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon282) [11:56:08] <@nbx909> what's that html tag that makes it use it as if it's from on the server [11:56:14] <@nbx909> like a base [11:56:17] <@nbx909> hrm [11:56:20] <@nbx909> i think that;s it [11:56:25] <14ninex> ? [11:56:27] <@Echelon> o.O [11:56:29] <14ninex> lol [11:57:12] * Anon260 (~Anon260@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [11:57:14] nope [11:57:18] not a base= [11:57:20] hrm [11:57:25] <14ninex> lol [11:57:29] * Anon260 (~Anon260@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon260) [11:58:00] <14ninex> [11:58:11] <@nbx909> there we go [11:58:54] <@nbx909> crap [11:58:58] * Echelon rocks out. [11:58:58] <14ninex> lol [11:59:01] <@nbx909> it works [11:59:09] <@nbx909> wait no itdoesn't [11:59:10] <@nbx909> hrm [11:59:20] <@nbx909> i need to edit the applet stuff [11:59:39] <@nbx909> wait no i don't [11:59:42] <@Echelon> i really hope this is the guitar one [11:59:47] <@Echelon> oh, there we go. [11:59:48] <@Echelon> ;p [12:00:03] <@nbx909> because it won't matter because i'll remove the base tag before i zip it up agian [12:00:04] <@nbx909> ]>< [12:00:12] * Echelon np: Martin O'Donnell & Michael Salvatori - Halo Theme Mjolnir Mix [04:11m/207Kbps/44KHz] [12:00:21] <@Echelon> if it didnt have guitars, the admin would scream at me [12:00:30] <@Echelon> haha [12:00:38] <14ninex> lol [12:01:02] <@nbx909> heh [12:01:17] * Anon074 (~Anon074@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [12:02:08] * Anon074 (~Anon074@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon074) [12:02:13] <@nbx909> oaky [12:02:20] <@Echelon> woot [12:02:22] <@nbx909> okay* [12:02:24] <@Echelon> guitars ahoy@#$@! [12:02:28] <@Echelon> lol [12:02:35] <@nbx909> now just upload to my server and then give them a link [12:02:37] <@nbx909> lol [12:02:48] In case anyone was wondering where I've been since yesterday morning, I was locked out of my apartment. ;) [12:03:01] Best 4th of July ever. [12:03:35] * Echelon np: Franz Ferdinand - Do You Want To [03:35m/222Kbps/44KHz] [12:03:40] <@Echelon> hahaha [12:03:43] I ended up sleeping at my office. [12:03:48] <@Echelon> that sucks :/ [12:04:13] Had no money, all the locksmiths that I could find were on vacation.. [12:04:41] <@Echelon> erk :( [12:04:48] <@Echelon> break a window? [12:04:53] <@nbx909> hahah [12:05:08] <@nbx909> Erik, landlord? [12:07:40] 3rd floor.. [12:07:46] Landlord had a key, it didn't fit. [12:08:01] The rental agency had the real key, and they were all out of town.. [12:08:03] <@Echelon> landlord has a midget key xD [12:08:46] It sucked too, because it was about 100 degrees yesterday and I had set my airconditioning to about 75 during the night/morning.. [12:08:58] <@Echelon> oi [12:09:08] <@Echelon> talk about a power bill. [12:09:14] Yeah, seriously. [12:09:17] <@snackbeard-sleep> Erik: Oh man... that sucks [12:09:43] So yeah. I put tape all over the door-knob lock that lets you lock yourself out, so that I will never do it again.. [12:10:08] Bad engineering, in my opinion. :P [12:10:11] <@Echelon> haha [12:11:10] <@nbx909> ha [12:11:42] * Phoenix (~phoenix@THX-27C78D2A.dynamic.surewest.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [12:13:39] * Anon706 (~Anon706@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [12:13:54] * Anon706 (~Anon706@THX-CDE2C2F9.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Anon706) [12:14:01] ! [12:15:09] * Echelon np: Kiss - God Gave Rock N' Roll To You [05:20m/192Kbps/44KHz] [12:15:25] <+Smirnov|work> That's interesting... Randy Barnett proposes to review the meaning of the lost constitution, but then how does one regulate businesses? [12:15:51] <@nbx909> don't? [12:15:52] <@nbx909> lol [12:16:00] <@nbx909> allow sweat shops! [12:16:01] <@nbx909> lol [12:16:03] <+Smirnov|work> Ah, I am a bit short-sighted.. through an amendment of course [12:16:09] <@nbx909> cheap labor! [12:16:25] <+Smirnov|work> I was thinking more along the lines of monopolies and collusions [12:18:21] * snackbeard-sleep is now known as snackbeard [12:19:09] <@nbx909> Smirnov|work, that too [12:19:26] <@nbx909> we'll keep the jobs here then [12:19:27] <@nbx909> sorta [12:20:04] * Echelon np: Disturbed - Guarded [03:21m/256Kbps/44KHz] [12:24:31] * nbx909 is currently listening to They Might Be Giants - Bangs (00:52 / 03:14) [12:24:33] <@nbx909> :P [12:24:54] i heard chuck norris has two speeds [12:25:50] <@nbx909> and those would be? [12:26:06] * Anon282 (~Anon282@THX-ED86642E.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #USpirateparty [12:26:58] walk [12:27:01] ...and kill [12:27:05] <@nbx909> ha [12:30:21] * snackbeard is now known as snackbeard-away [12:33:54] * Anon282 (~Anon282@THX-ED86642E.tukw.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Anon282) [12:43:04] i am going to submit a story to digg, is that cool? [12:43:10] for the site redesign [12:43:14] nooooooo [12:43:24] <+Smirnov|work> no [12:43:26] "US Pirate Party Re-Launches" or something like that [12:43:26] <+Smirnov|work> not yet. [12:43:30] oh [12:43:38] <+Smirnov|work> only if you get permission from snackbeard or TheWizr [12:43:41] too much traffic [12:43:46] ok, thats cool [12:43:51] <+Smirnov|work> we simply decided to do it later [12:44:48] <@Echelon> heh [12:44:52] <@Echelon> just be quick on it [12:44:57] <@Echelon> somebody's bound to be defiant [12:44:58] <@Echelon> and do it [12:48:30] * benzene (~elihuihms@THX-9423033E.tamu.edu) Quit (Quit: benzene) [12:49:09] <+Smirnov|work> possibly.. [12:55:20] * Gavin (~Robotsu@Gavin.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [12:59:48] yarr [13:05:16] yarr [13:12:52] e-YARR [13:13:20] well played, sir [13:14:04] Gyarr. [13:14:18] Why are we worried about traffic? [13:14:35] Is the server currently in someone's basement? :D [13:15:32] why do you wanna know mr nsa plant [13:16:37] :O [13:17:08] Just wondering because I want to post news about it elsewhere.. [13:18:02] <@Echelon> ... [13:18:10] * Echelon sighs [13:19:55] * Anon860 (~Anon860@THX-62870BE7.studentactivity.pitt.edu) has joined #USpirateparty [13:20:07] * Anon860 (~Anon860@THX-62870BE7.studentactivity.pitt.edu) Quit (Quit: Anon860) [13:37:07] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [13:37:41] * SeLfkiLL (~a@THX-22170E11.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [13:46:18] * Gavin (~Robotsu@Gavin.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [13:48:59] Has anyone written a definitive article on why we're a political party instead of a lobbying/special interest group? [13:50:06] Erik: why are you? :) [13:50:44] Not really, I posted some stuff on the old forums. I just think that it would be easier to point trolls to a well written article rather than reinventing the argument each time. [13:51:14] it's quite hard for a small organisation to with the president election in the US, am I not right? [13:51:20] winn* [13:51:32] (Im from sweden) [13:51:44] We are more interested in filling spots in the Senate. [13:51:57] Or House.. [13:52:26] Oh, well I don't really know how it works in the US [13:52:41] It's silly, Sweden has a much better system. [13:52:55] We have? :) [13:53:01] afaik, yes we do ;) [13:53:26] Well, I suppose so too, even though I don't know how it works in the US [13:53:27] :p [13:53:40] (Don't like presidents) :p [13:53:52] so you can get seats in the US without having a majority in some place, or is that still required? [13:53:54] The president doesn't draft laws. [13:54:04] He just accepts or rejects them, more or less.. [13:54:19] But everything has to go though him? [13:54:44] He can make things not happen, yes. [13:55:00] Ok [13:55:04] The seperation of powers is all pretty well explained in the constitution. [13:55:32] You want me to read the constitution? :p [13:55:56] However, Bush likes to use loopholes that have come up since then to do things that step over the check and balances system.. [13:56:35] Like the NSA's wiretapping. [13:57:10] It's scary when that things happens, in all systems [13:57:43] Such wiretapping is permissible, and understandable in my opinion. But doing it without keeping our judiciary branch in the loop is outright wrong. [13:58:30] And leads me to believe that if they didn't want the checks and balances they are trying to cover something up that is really unconstitution. [13:59:13] *unconstitutional [14:01:54] * Anon292 (~Anon292@THX-5D0AA7DF.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #USpirateparty [14:02:10] YAAARRRRR! [14:04:06] <+K`Tetch> erik - actually, thats the point, the method for obtaining wiretapps is a special FISA court [14:04:11] <+K`Tetch> thats that course purpose [14:05:21] ok... I'm all new to this IRC thing... how do I set a nickname? [14:05:44] /nick [14:05:56] * Anon292 is now known as Redbeard [14:06:00] thanks! [14:06:02] :) [14:06:04] np [14:06:21] So how goes it? [14:07:01] * Redbeard (~Anon292@THX-5D0AA7DF.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit (Quit: Redbeard) [14:07:26] * Anon626 (~Anon626@THX-5D0AA7DF.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #USpirateparty [14:07:35] * Anon626 is now known as Redbeard [14:07:45] Damn confusing new thingy [14:08:04] hehe [14:08:09] what client are you using? [14:08:57] <14ninex> pirateIRC [14:09:09] :) [14:09:57] Heya Redbeard. [14:11:29] hey [14:11:36] sorry... work grabbed me...brb [14:12:18] K`Tetch: But the FISA court was being bypassed, correct? [14:12:26] Or am I thinking of something else entirely? [14:12:27] <+K`Tetch> IS, yes [14:13:29] ok... what's this stuff about what client I'm using... I'm like totally new to IRC [14:14:52] <+K`Tetch> what program are you using to access this channel [14:15:01] Mozilla? Java? [14:15:08] <+K`Tetch> and the answer is PJirc 2.1.1 [14:15:10] IRC is an open protocol. Programs that implement it are called IRC clients. :) [14:15:26] sooo my client would be Firefox? [14:15:30] <+K`Tetch> erik - ctcp is your friend [14:15:38] <+K`Tetch> no Redbeard your client is pjir [14:15:46] What's pjir? [14:15:48] <+K`Tetch> the firefox client is actually chatzilla [14:16:00] <+K`Tetch> pjirc is the name of the java program you're using [14:16:02] ok... I'm confused, but ok [14:16:32] <+K`Tetch> don't worry about i [14:16:44] <+K`Tetch> if you're on windows, the most common client is called mirc - mirc.com [14:17:03] yeah... I've tried using that like once or twice... never got into it all that much though [14:17:11] <+K`Tetch> it takes time [14:17:26] well... wanted to say the site looks nice! [14:17:34] <+K`Tetch> that java windows fine for now, until you handle the basics [14:17:48] <+K`Tetch> i aint even strted opera yet and looked [14:18:24] I use opera [14:20:10] (If you wanted to know any how the site looked with it) [14:20:44] <+K`Tetch> it looks good [14:21:33] Yup, can't find any errors except those already said in the forum [14:33:45] <+Smirnov|work> Does anyone know where I can find the categories of U.S. ex post facto laws? [14:34:23] <+K`Tetch> maybe findlaw.com [14:34:27] <+K`Tetch> or cornell law scool [14:34:32] <+K`Tetch> dunno where exactly though [14:35:07] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [14:35:27] <+Smirnov|work> Do we have any lawyers or law students online right now [14:35:40] How about college students? Anyone of those? [14:35:55] I bet the whole channel would raise their collective hand. [14:36:39] ... [14:36:42] I'll go now.. [14:36:43] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [14:39:41] * snackbeard-work (~snackbear@THX-A9E54021.dotnet.com) has joined #USpirateparty [14:41:31] * snackbeard-work (~snackbear@snackbeard-work.users.echel0n.net) has left #USpirateparty [14:41:31] * snackbeard-work (~snackbear@snackbeard-work.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [14:42:07] ok... sooooo... how do I register my nickname here [14:44:20] <+Smirnov|work> When you repeal an ex post facto law, would going back to the original terms for all those previously affected ex post facto also constitute an ex post facto ruling? [14:44:43] /msg NickServ HELP REGISTER [14:44:45] ./msg nickserv help register [14:44:50] Without the period. :) [14:44:50] (Redbeard) [14:44:59] ok [14:45:58] <+K`Tetch> I dunno Smirnov|away - I'm aboutt o go take a nap, been a long 2 days [14:46:18] <+K`Tetch> and snackbeard-away, don't like the way you have to preview before posting on the forum [14:46:36] We can set that to optional [14:46:48] Give the poster a choice to post, or preview [15:03:19] <@nbx909> i hate the new forums anyway [15:03:20] <@nbx909> :P [15:05:04] * halonine is now known as halonine|lunchy [15:05:47] <@nbx909> you see this poor excuse for a website? http://www.pirate-party.co.uk/ [15:06:18] <@nbx909> and to join apperently you have to donate [15:06:20] <@nbx909> >< [15:06:28] <+Smirnov|work> wow [15:06:29] wtf [15:07:17] <@nbx909> oh and after spending a minute on their site i found the fourms [15:07:22] <@nbx909> fourms* [15:07:26] <+K`Tetch> I'm thinking thats illegal [15:07:57] <+K`Tetch> Our users have posted a total of 1 article [15:07:58] <+K`Tetch> We have 2 registered users [15:09:06] <@nbx909> hrm [15:09:28] <+Smirnov|work> ? [15:09:30] <@nbx909> i was going to send them an email about hosting an irc chat for them but maybe i'll wait until they get a decent design [15:09:45] man... 2 registered? [15:09:57] <@nbx909> because right now it looks like it's somebody trying to rip off people [15:10:39] <@nbx909> anyway [15:10:40] <@nbx909> bbl [15:10:48] <@nbx909> i'm going to get something to eat [15:15:53] * elsebasbe (~saile_reg@A2382CDC.7210B7A0.2D54E357.IP) Quit (Client exited) [15:16:38] * elsebasbe (~saile_reg@THX-B6F76E5F.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #USpirateparty [15:22:14] so anyone have any cool thoughts? [15:32:40] yeah [15:32:49] majority of swedish chicks have big busts [15:33:04] <+Smirnov|work> is that a fact or a hypothesis? [15:33:30] hypothesis [15:33:37] <+Smirnov|work> bleh [15:34:46] * SeLfkiLL (~a@THX-22170E11.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #USpirateparty [15:35:17] not a bad one though [15:35:32] www.hwpr0n.se [15:37:22] * halonine|lunchy is now known as halonine [15:38:19] * jake (jm@jake.users.echel0n.net) kicked by nbx909 (posting inappropriate websites) [15:38:20] <@Echelon> ... [15:38:40] <@nbx909> that's the last time i'm like well he'd know better and open it up [15:38:41] <+Smirnov|work> you know i was about to click on that too..phew [15:38:50] <@nbx909> yeah it's nsfw [15:39:03] <+Smirnov|work> good I have a bad tendency to click on all links in irc [15:39:14] <@Echelon> lol [15:39:34] meh... it didn't show anything more than just fully dressed girls holding network hardware [15:40:11] Sweet. [15:40:30] <+Smirnov|work> bleh [15:40:37] hahahahahaha [15:40:44] <+Smirnov|work> thats disappointin [15:41:00] * jake (jm@jake.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [15:41:03] No nudity that I saw, but still nsfw. [15:41:11] <@nbx909> yeah [15:41:12] Girls with Network Equipment :( [15:41:16] i shoulda marked it nsfw [15:41:16] sry [15:41:26] <@nbx909> yeah that would have been nice [15:41:26] <+Smirnov|work> nsfw even thogh its without nudity?? [15:41:27] <@nbx909> lol [15:41:47] <@nbx909> Smirnov|work, yeah [15:42:03] <@nbx909> one of those things you'd have a hard time explaining to the boss [15:42:04] <@nbx909> lol [15:42:06] but they were hot girls... and made me wanna buy networks switches! [15:42:12] <@nbx909> ha [15:42:15] <@Echelon> ... [15:42:18] hah [15:42:21] <+Smirnov|work> mmmmm network switches [15:42:24] If anyone in the media has understanding of IRC, and comes to this channel, I'd hate to see their reaction to us at times. [15:42:30] <@Echelon> why not make network switches in the shape of breasts. [15:42:34] <@Echelon> people would definately buy them [15:42:38] <@nbx909> haha [15:42:43] Some people wouldn't leave the server closets. [15:42:52] <+Smirnov|work> only in japan [15:43:02] <@nbx909> i don't and i'm just messing with the server :P [15:43:03] <@nbx909> lol [15:43:10] <@Echelon> lol [15:43:21] <@Echelon> got my ass djing again ;D [15:46:23] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [15:48:06] * tina (~dorkified@THX-52B9ACA8.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #USpirateparty [16:02:15] <@nbx909> heh [16:02:57] o.O [16:03:09] <@Echelon> meeps [16:03:58] <@nbx909> speem [16:04:13] I read that as sperm. [16:04:34] <@Echelon> lol [16:04:49] <@nbx909> haha [16:06:08] Not cool.. [16:06:23] tina would read it as sperm. [16:06:28] And that link was totally safe for work.. [16:07:58] <@nbx909> Erik, i didn't ban him i just kicked him... [16:14:46] MONKEY. [16:14:55] <@nbx909> ? [16:14:59] I dunno. [16:15:09] wouldnt that make it skeep alot [16:15:25] oopsy wrong window [16:15:30] .. [16:15:32] <@nbx909> O.o [16:15:36] werd. [16:18:15] <@Echelon> :P [16:21:22] * digix (~digix@THX-C07E39B8.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #USpirateparty [16:21:24] so whatsup all [16:21:52] any body think swartzeneger poisened ken lay to silence him eh eh [16:22:14] the new site looks great... when did that go up? (ive been out of touch for a while) [16:22:28] <+Smirnov|work> yesterday [16:22:52] ohhh nice [16:23:15] lol match questions [16:24:47] Yeah, the new site is awesome. [16:25:05] what better day to unviel it too [16:25:23] I wish that the content part was a bit wider, though... [16:25:43] yah [16:25:52] still a nice change from the old site [16:25:53] here here [16:25:56] i mean yarg [16:25:56] Definitely. [16:26:10] I like the content they put up too. [16:26:53] It was fresh, to the point, and wasn't anti-corporate as the past stuff was. [16:27:57] great, i never could find the state ballots wiki in the forums [16:28:04] yea [16:28:33] dag whats the pw again [16:28:42] pr94l1f3zors [16:29:24] something close, like that or yarg4 somethin [16:30:01] i like the all content released is public domain [16:30:06] now this shit looks official [16:30:39] <@nbx909> you see this? http://pirate-party.us/node/34 [16:33:46] * mitb (~mitb@THX-C205E868.sb.sd.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [16:34:25] yah insurgency posted that [16:34:55] why whats up? [16:35:45] * suckacracka (~suckacrac@suckacracka.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [16:35:47] Oi, promoting piracy is not a good idea. [16:36:08] who said i am [16:36:17] i was just asking for the password [16:36:25] i wanted to add my mi info [16:36:36] since the forums got nuked in the rebirth process [16:36:37] Insurgency, not you. [16:37:13] ok [16:37:23] In his forum post. [16:37:32] yah [16:37:34] and the point being [16:37:39] just to show to those who dont know yet or what [16:37:47] cause your preaching to the choir [16:38:58] hello? [16:39:00] Well, we should only advocate doing those things after it is passed into law.. [16:39:12] ok why again are you saying this to me [16:39:18] i haved said anything in regards to this [16:39:31] Wait, what were you asking about the point? [16:39:54] the point of saying it to me is what im saying [16:40:01] i understand the point [16:40:17] but again problem with the irc is we cant tell context as well without voice and such [16:40:34] Sorry. I was just commenting on what nbx909 posted. [16:40:36] i thought you were pointing this out to me as if i came in here saying pirate ish and steal this [16:40:43] thats why i was asking [16:40:56] ahhhhh [16:41:01] damn miscommunication [16:41:07] Yeah, it sucks. [16:41:10] thankfully were'nt not trolls [16:41:13] praise bob [16:41:27] Heh, well I'm going to go pay my rent.. [16:41:56] See you all later. [16:41:58] * Erik (~fdorothy@Erik.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: leaving) [16:42:11] <@nbx909> heh [16:42:16] yarg [16:42:22] so anyone know the pw by chance? [16:43:14] see we're like the nice progressive movement, and insurgency has total X belief; any means nessassary [16:43:28] its a said fundamental flaw that we both in a sense need to have [16:43:51] because without people like him, we'll have no one to set ourselves apart from. [16:44:02] and we'd be demonized by those who'd use our name against us [16:44:34] as we will regardless, but i think his groups ways will take heat away from us. just as long as we dont condone the actions they take [16:44:45] but repect they're right to do it [16:45:32] <@nbx909> okay... [16:46:10] no discussion rebuttle [16:46:16] no fu ignant skab [16:46:32] <@nbx909> okay there's a lot of text there and well meh [16:46:33] <@nbx909> lol [16:46:34] don't look at me [16:46:39] lol [16:46:41] nice [16:46:43] i just sit here and send everything back to the NSA -- er [16:46:46] i just sit here. [16:46:46] yeah. [16:46:55] least your honest [16:46:58] <@nbx909> ha [16:47:16] WE KNOW ALL YOUR SECRETS. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US [16:47:17] etc [16:47:17] * nbx909 is currently listening to They Might Be Giants - Call Connected Thru The NSA (00:02 / 00:37) [16:47:23] now im confertable with that van outside [16:47:28] <@nbx909> best ringtone/song ever [16:47:31] <@nbx909> lol [16:48:13] so yeah that hwpr0n [16:48:23] them some phat ruoters eh [16:48:26] that hwpr0n gave me the idea to hollow out my old HP. [16:48:28] and put sex toys in it. [16:48:47] nice [16:49:04] indeed. [16:50:16] <@nbx909> wtf [16:50:20] <@nbx909> Kawinma, no [16:50:34] <@nbx909> no talk like that in here [16:51:21] knew that would make someone mad [16:51:21] ;p [16:51:32] would be a good way of smuggling things thoughhhh. [16:52:16] <@nbx909> ... [16:52:17] * Anon660 (~Anon660@THX-6DC80940.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #USpirateparty [16:52:20] <@nbx909> look at new topic [16:52:22] hey all [16:52:24] <@nbx909> a* [16:52:25] <@nbx909> lol [16:52:29] help digg this story: http://digg.com/politics/The_Pirate_Party_of_U.S._Launches_Updated_Website [16:52:34] <@nbx909> fuck [16:52:40] <@nbx909> Anon660, read the topic [16:52:42] <@nbx909> lol [16:52:53] * Anon660 (~Anon660@THX-6DC80940.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: Anon660) [16:52:59] <@nbx909> hahahh [16:53:02] <@nbx909> bury it [16:53:04] <@nbx909> now [16:53:06] <@nbx909> lol [16:53:07] <14ninex> rofl [16:53:24] <@nbx909> funny as hell though [16:54:10] <@nbx909> SkabSkab (0) [16:54:12] dugg [16:54:14] <@nbx909> asfdsf [16:54:18] <@nbx909> i said burry [16:54:22] <@nbx909> not digg! [16:54:28] <14ninex> you mean digg? [16:54:30] <@nbx909> >< [16:54:32] <@nbx909> no [16:54:33] <@nbx909> bury [16:54:35] <14ninex> oh [16:54:36] <14ninex> digg [16:54:37] <@nbx909> lol [16:54:39] digg [16:54:41] <14ninex> XD [16:54:41] <@nbx909> ffdsfa [16:54:43] buy=good [16:54:51] <@nbx909> gah [16:54:54] im sure no one will boost it [16:54:59] ho hum [16:55:05] <@nbx909> well [16:55:08] is it not a cssy as you'd like [16:55:15] we can' [16:55:21] t spread word to quick [16:55:52] <14ninex> /amsg NEW US PIRATE PARTY WEB SITE!!! [16:55:53] <14ninex> XD [16:56:18] <7@nbx909> /gline ninex 999 hahahaah die [16:56:20] <@nbx909> :P [16:56:37] <+Smirnov|work> no dont bury it [16:56:39] <14ninex> /connect from different bnc lol [16:56:39] So you updated it so we wouldnt get more people to see it? [16:56:41] <@nbx909> asdfasfs [16:56:55] <+Smirnov|work> oh shit its corevette being an idiot again [16:57:04] <@nbx909> so burry? [16:57:07] <+Smirnov|work> hmm [16:57:11] <+Smirnov|work> what should we do snackbeard-work TheWizrd[NotHere] !!!! [16:57:14] <@nbx909> lol [16:57:15] <14ninex> make it open to registered users [16:57:17] <@nbx909> haha [16:57:18] omg the link goes straight to stileproject [16:57:20] not funny [16:57:22] <14ninex> and close registrations [16:57:32] <@nbx909> no [16:57:36] <+Smirnov|work> nobody has dugg it so far hold ojn [16:57:41] <@nbx909> yeah [16:57:43] i have [16:57:45] <14ninex> lol [16:57:47] * Skab kicks dirt [16:57:53] <14ninex> undigg it XD [16:57:57] OH that was wrong [16:57:57] <@nbx909> yeah [16:57:59] <@nbx909> lol [16:58:16] fuck this im taking my ball home [16:59:13] <@tommstein> using coral cache links can alleviate a lot of traffic problems [17:00:17] <@nbx909> well it's not an instant hit so that's good [17:00:34] <+Smirnov|work> BURY IT [17:00:38] <+Smirnov|work> official word from the top [17:00:39] <+Smirnov|work> http://digg.com/politics/The_Pirate_Party_of_U.S._Launches_Updated_Website [17:00:40] <@nbx909> RGR [17:00:40] <+Smirnov|work> BURY IT [17:00:47] <@nbx909> already have [17:00:52] <@nbx909> loading weasel accounts now [17:00:52] <@nbx909> lol [17:00:57] * Kawinma buries soon enough [17:00:59] <+Smirnov|work> good [17:01:02] * Kawinma buries Smirnov|away as well [17:01:44] bury as what innacurate? [17:02:05] <@tommstein> heh, i'm banned from digg. no can do [17:02:16] <@tommstein> bad link maybe [17:02:20] lol why [17:02:22] <@nbx909> Skab, yeah [17:02:23] <@tommstein> if that's still an option [17:02:38] <@tommstein> why what, why i'm banned? [17:02:42] yah [17:03:04] <@nbx909> crap [17:03:06] <+Smirnov|work> ol [17:03:07] they almost banned me because i said digg basically is ddosing someone so lets keep up with the scientology posts [17:03:12] <@nbx909> n00854180t dugg it [17:03:12] <@nbx909> lol [17:03:20] <+Smirnov|work> yeah everyone bury this [17:03:27] reason [17:03:32] i still buried it [17:03:42] burried [17:03:42] <+Smirnov|work> bury it cause its duplicate.. yeah [17:03:47] <+Smirnov|work> bury it as a dupe [17:03:49] <+Smirnov|work> we will release a real one later [17:03:55] buried [17:03:56] ahhh i see [17:04:16] shit 4 diggs now [17:04:27] ive seen them come up with as small as 12 diggs on the main [17:04:47] 5 [17:04:49] <@nbx909> not with all the burries [17:04:55] true [17:04:58] <@tommstein> i just wake up one day, go to log in, and i'm banned. i send them an e-mail asking why, and all they said was something like "vulgar and irrelevant comments," without giving me any examples of what they were talking about. i can guarantee that there were no irrelevant ones (unless they were in response to someone else's irrelevant comment), and if they banned everyone that used vulgarity they'd have to ban half of everyone, and [17:04:58] <@tommstein> might as well remove that "hide bad language" option [17:05:01] <+Smirnov|work> Why isnt burying taking down the diggs ?! [17:05:15] * nbx909 slaps kawinma with a dead sea lion [17:05:20] 6 [17:05:20] <@nbx909> you dugg it you idiot [17:05:22] <@nbx909> lol [17:05:51] <@tommstein> so i just told them that if i ever felt a need for my fix of 83 apple stories a day again, i'd use a different username and/or proxy connections, so they put my ip address on the blocklist [17:05:55] true [17:06:36] digg kinda sucks for that shit [17:06:39] <+Smirnov|work> lol [17:06:46] <+Smirnov|work> no i buried it [17:06:48] they'll late crazy rave on about kill bush [17:06:57] <+Smirnov|work> ahh 5 diggs dammit [17:06:58] but say ddos this or hack that [17:07:12] sucks that after you say bury you cant undigg it [17:07:15] <@nbx909> i have people on other networks burying it as well [17:07:34] <@tommstein> digg is run by the same kind of idiots that run wikipedia [17:07:44] <+Smirnov|work> tell everyone you know to bury that story [17:08:03] <@nbx909> tommstein, kevin rose owns wikipedia? news to me.... [17:08:22] kind of [17:08:23] <@tommstein> nbx909, that's why i said "kind of idiots," not "same idiots" [17:08:30] <@nbx909> oh [17:08:31] <@nbx909> lol [17:08:54] notice he isn't doing any of that thebroken ish anymore [17:09:01] <@tommstein> i don't know if wikipedia can be topped for mismanagement though [17:09:16] drinking his crystil at the digg3 showing made his 1337 skills die [17:09:52] <@tommstein> hmm, if you want that digg story buried, start talking shit about apple in the comments. it's guaranteed to be gone in under 30 seconds or your money back [17:09:53] up our current adminastration? [17:10:46] When the real digg post is put up we need to all digg it at the same time and right away so it hits the front page. [17:11:15] yeah cause at the wrong time it'll just get flushed down [17:11:30] thankfully that time is now [17:11:42] It's been buried too much already. [17:12:15] then it'll be funny when the real one get posted, then some random person says" DUPE posted already GEEZ why do i even post this to get modded down?" [17:12:36] Thats why we need to bury the one up there now [17:12:56] Why was it posted in the first place? The topic says don't post it to digg. [17:13:22] <@nbx909> http://pirate-party.us/node/44 [17:13:23] <+Smirnov|work> corevette isnt in this channel so he probably doesn't know [17:13:53] <@nbx909> the anon person joined and pasted digg this [17:13:58] <@tommstein> nbx909, i noticed that too [17:14:01] <+Smirnov|work> nbx [17:14:09] <+Smirnov|work> someone hacked the template so the author wouldnt show up for Issues [17:14:16] <@nbx909> oh [17:14:17] <@nbx909> >< [17:14:32] <@nbx909> but it doesn't show up anywhere else [17:14:33] <@tommstein> am i the only one who thinks that the new forums suck the big one compared to the old ones? [17:14:34] <+Smirnov|work> now the author doesnt show up for all nodes [17:14:39] <@nbx909> i see [17:14:44] <@nbx909> so that's a bug [17:14:45] <+Smirnov|work> would you people chill with the forums already [17:14:49] <@nbx909> that needs to be fixed [17:14:50] <@nbx909> lol [17:14:58] <+Smirnov|work> who wants to write a mod that will use drupal users from phpbb? [17:15:08] <@nbx909> Smirnov|away, i thought that nobody had noticed [17:15:34] <@nbx909> btw [17:15:54] <@nbx909> corevette == the anon guy that pasted the link [17:15:59] <+Smirnov|work> yeah [17:16:05] <+Smirnov|work> how many buries does it need before it goes away [17:16:07] <@nbx909> i jsut ran the ips [17:16:14] <@nbx909> Smirnov|away, it never goes away [17:16:27] <+Smirnov|work> does it say "buried" just for the people who buried it? [17:16:38] <@nbx909> yes [17:16:58] <@nbx909> after X amount of buries it's taken off the pages [17:17:20] <@nbx909> so you can only access it from people's profiles, a direct link, or a search [17:17:32] Wow. There's a second post about the new website now on digg.com [17:17:45] <@nbx909> god damn [17:17:47] <@nbx909> paste it [17:17:51] <@nbx909> so we can kill it [17:18:06] http://www.digg.com/politics/Pirate_Party_Launches_new_website_on_the_4th [17:18:16] <+Smirnov|work> yes kill that shit [17:18:33] <+Smirnov|work> horrible copy & paste [17:18:52] <@nbx909> kill it as a dupe [17:19:10] shit i almost shat myself when i seen this [17:19:15] lucklliy it ends with france [17:19:15] rhymes [17:19:20] <@nbx909> O.o [17:19:24] http://digg.com/world_news/Pirate_Party_Launches_in_France! [17:19:27] <@nbx909> hahaha [17:19:30] just got on the front page [17:19:48] <+Smirnov|work> hkmm [17:19:52] <+Smirnov|work> nice [17:20:10] <+Smirnov|work> is anyone here good at writing, we might need someone to write up a nice summary [17:20:30] <@nbx909> summarry of what? [17:20:33] <@nbx909> i copy and paste [17:20:33] <@nbx909> lol [17:20:39] <+Smirnov|work> an official summary for our site [17:20:43] <@nbx909> oh [17:20:46] <@nbx909> idk [17:20:55] <@nbx909> i always copy and paste for digg [17:21:02] <@nbx909> it turns out to be the best [17:21:44] <+Smirnov|work> hmm [17:22:06] <+Smirnov|work> well we buried those other ones so we certainly can't go back and digg it [17:23:08] <@nbx909> it's 5 hours old too [17:24:43] On the website, the link to the French PP doesn't work. [17:26:24] <+Smirnov|work> how about this? http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/FYsPQZ60.html [17:30:30] looks good [17:30:51] line 4, change "for" to "on" [17:31:21] <+Smirnov|work> ok [17:32:12] "against the lack of representation for the user, and the" [17:32:18] otherwise, looks great [17:32:38] * Anon875 (~Anon875@THX-6DC80940.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #USpirateparty [17:32:39] <+Smirnov|work> for the user ? [17:33:00] the copyright conglomerates have plenty of representation :P [17:33:08] * Anon875 (~Anon875@THX-6DC80940.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: Anon875) [17:33:31] <+Smirnov|work> ok i changed that and also ", ignoring the will of the people" instead of "and ignore.." [17:33:39] <+Smirnov|work> so the "and" doesnt get confused [17:34:08] hmm... "and the draconian laws used to serve the corporation while ignoring the will of the people" [17:34:17] *corporations [17:34:20] <+Smirnov|work> ok [17:36:23] <+Smirnov|work> oh snap [17:37:30] <+Smirnov|work> too many characters [17:38:00] meh :/ [17:39:03] <+Smirnov|work> how about [17:39:05] <+Smirnov|work> We are proud to announce the creation of a new website on this famous date of July 4th, 2006. Now you too can fight the good fight against the lack of representation for the user and draconian laws used to serve the corporations while ignoring the will of the people. Find official stances and forums at our site. Let this day mark a new era. [17:39:39] sounds good [17:40:04] <@tommstein> are posts being deleted from the forums? [17:40:36] <+Smirnov|work> ok [17:40:40] <+Smirnov|work> the spam might be [17:40:43] <+Smirnov|work> or its being moved to offtopic [17:40:49] <+Smirnov|work> I AM POSTING AN OFFICIALLY ENDORSED DIGG STORY [17:40:53] <+Smirnov|work> if you see a story by Smirnov, DO NOT BURY [17:40:57] OK [17:41:18] lnk it up [17:41:23] ATTN: DIGG THIS TOPIC [17:41:30] and change the topic to the link to the digg story [17:41:30] :O [17:41:42] nbx909 [17:41:48] <@tommstein> hmm, i must post a lot of off-topic stuff then. at least 2 of my posts are gone [17:41:58] <@nbx909> link me? [17:41:59] * Redbeard (~Anon626@Redbeard.users.echel0n.net) has left #USpirateparty [17:42:07] <+Smirnov|work> http://digg.com/politics/The_Pirate_Party_of_the_United_States_site_launches [17:42:12] <+Smirnov|work> DIGG THAT AND PUT IT IN THE TOPIC :) [17:42:25] digg digg digg [17:42:26] faster [17:42:27] :O [17:42:30] * nbx909 changes topic to '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ http://www.pirate-party.us/ ] [Digg this http://digg.com/politics/The_Pirate_Party_of_the_United_States_site_launches ]' [17:43:21] <+Smirnov|work> If anyone wants to post it on other news sites, use similar text and go ahead [17:43:24] * Anon833 (~Anon833@THX-767CC0E8.client.mchsi.com) has joined #USpirateparty [17:43:30] <+Smirnov|work> I am not registered on /. so there you go [17:43:52] coo [17:44:04] * Anon472 (~Anon472@THX-B02AFC61.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #USpirateparty [17:44:09] i wish some of the forums posts c ould have gotten switched over [17:44:28] Hello everyone [17:44:33] digg it [17:44:35] * Anon833 is now known as thewordisavampire [17:44:37] <+Smirnov|work> I don't know if we even have database access to that site [17:44:40] * Anon472 is now known as Neural_Overload [17:44:53] viva la Pirate Party! [17:44:54] <+Smirnov|work> hi everyone please digg our news story, we are endorsing only that one and none of the other ones you might see on digg ;) [17:45:47] * tina runs and hides -[ I am hiding after ignoring you all for 90 minutes. ]- at 05:45p -[ P:On / L:On ]- [17:45:47] * tina is now known as awayies [17:46:06] <+Smirnov|work> maybe we should make some kind of issue about not endoring software/music/video piracy later [17:46:10] The Pirate Party in france digg article or a US one I don't know about? [17:46:23] US one [17:46:26] I dugg it :D [17:46:27] <+Smirnov|work> the one in the topic [17:46:28] its in the topic [17:46:36] Sounds like an AWSOME idea [17:46:38] ok [17:46:39] "piracy?" I do beleive you mean "unauthorized works distribution" [17:46:39] <+Smirnov|work> come on only 8 diggs :) [17:46:47] <+Smirnov|work> yes [17:46:51] <+Smirnov|work> I was too lazy to type all that out [17:46:53] heh [17:47:18] <+Smirnov|work> oh shit someone buried it [17:47:25] What!?!?! [17:47:29] <+Smirnov|work> can someone besides me add a comment that this is the official story and all the other ones are dupes ;) [17:48:20] someone should post our link in the pirate bay's channel [17:48:24] My internet's been slow. My ISP is hassling me for using too much bandwidth. [17:48:33] <+Smirnov|work> yeah post the link on the pirate bay channel [17:48:50] first i need to find it :P [17:49:00] It's devilish... If they didn't want me to use all my bandwidth, they should just give me less. [17:49:03] who's working on the site? [17:49:22] <+Smirnov|work> a few people besides the cochairs why? [17:49:48] there's some recommendations I have for the layout [17:49:55] ATLANTA - Three people have been arrested and charged with stealing confidential information about drink recipes from The Coca-Cola Co. and trying to sell it to rival PepsiCo Inc., federal prosecutors said Wednesday. [17:50:00] I suggest people post the digg link in other IRC channels they are in. [17:50:18] e.g. changing the default font to verdenna so it's not so ugly looking :P [17:50:41] <+Smirnov|work> I thought it was ok [17:50:47] <+Smirnov|work> lol [17:50:59] it would look even better [17:51:00] Someone come up with a funny headline for the pirate party's new website [17:51:01] <+Smirnov|work> yeah post the link in all the warez channels you know of [17:51:11] <+Smirnov|work> yeah and post the same story on /. while you're at it [17:51:31] * nbx909 slaps Smirnov|work with a dead sea lion [17:51:32] <@nbx909> lol [17:51:34] <+Smirnov|work> Come on there's like 35 people here you guys can digg it [17:51:42] * halonine already dugg it [17:51:49] <@nbx909> post it on the forums? [17:51:56] I searched for the digg article and couldn't find it. [17:52:01] <+Smirnov|work> someone not on the staff can do that [17:52:08] <+Smirnov|work> its at http://digg.com/politics/The_Pirate_Party_of_the_United_States_site_launches [17:52:26] kthx [17:52:33] * Neural_Overload (~Anon472@THX-B02AFC61.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Neural_Overload) [17:52:34] I wish you guys would enlarge the font by one point at least, it's so small in my resolution [17:52:39] <@nbx909> thewordisavampire, topic... [17:52:49] <+Smirnov|work> self what resolution [17:52:55] <+Smirnov|work> its fine on my home 1600x1200 [17:52:58] <+Smirnov|work> you might need a bigger monitor [17:53:06] * Neural_Overload (~Bio_Hazar@THX-B02AFC61.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #USpirateparty [17:53:07] mine is 21" [17:53:16] <@nbx909> what's the resolution? [17:53:17] dugg. [17:53:20] <@nbx909> ty [17:53:23] <+Smirnov|work> actually it might bea little small [17:53:25] it's lower than 1600x1200 [17:53:26] man those comment boxes stop quick don't they [17:53:27] <+Smirnov|work> thats a CSS thing, post in website issues [17:53:33] 1280x1024 [17:53:48] but the font is still really small [17:53:54] <@nbx909> SysInfo: Linux 2.6.15-25-686 | AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2000+ 1665.588 MHz | Bogomips: 3334.45 | Mem: 993/1264M [||||||||||] | Diskspace: 220.96G Free: 152.35G  Used: 68.61G | Procs: 87 | Uptime: 7 hrs 9 mins 56 secs | Load: 0.31 0.36 0.30 | Screen: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AP [Radeon 9600] @ 1024x768 (24 bpp) | eth0: In: 355.83M Out: 153.03M [17:54:03] <@nbx909> i'm at 1024 X 786 [17:54:05] <@nbx909> lol [17:54:20] <@nbx909> it's fine [17:54:22] <@nbx909> for me [17:54:38] <+Smirnov|work> yeah its really nice on 1024x768 [17:54:45] <+Smirnov|work> I never have to squint or use CTRL + [17:54:49] The US Pirate Party needs a theme song. [17:54:58] yaar [17:55:08] <+Smirnov|work> if you are a songwriter willing to make one for the public domain go for it ;) [17:55:15] <+Smirnov|work> Is someone posting this on /. ? [17:55:32] <+Smirnov|work> need to do it before everyone leaves to go home from work :P [17:55:49] <+Smirnov|work> people are already leaving on the east coast [17:56:01] it's only 6 on east [17:56:10] <+Smirnov|work> well maybe not hardcore programmers [17:56:36] tomorrow this will be all over teh_internet. [17:56:42] <+Smirnov|work> heh yeah [17:56:53] <+Smirnov|work> REFORMING THE COPYRIGHT LAWS? THATS UNPOSSIBLE :P [17:56:57] this shit is bigger than sliced bread. [17:57:03] why not canned bread? [17:57:09] <+Smirnov|work> cause sliced bread is the shit [17:57:13] canned bread? [17:57:15] sweet! [17:57:19] where can I get that? [17:57:30] buy a loaf and ram it into an empty can [17:57:34] it should take shape accordingly [17:57:37] rofl [17:58:00] Lol [17:58:12] * box|xp (~boxgamex@THX-BC972423.fuse.net) has joined #USpirateparty [17:58:25] anyone here a GURPS player? [17:58:41] <+Smirnov|work> box: please digg the site [17:58:47] <+Smirnov|work> What's that? thewordisavampire? [17:59:08] a roleplaying game. [17:59:16] tabletob roleplaying. [17:59:31] <@nbx909> any other lawyers in here? [17:59:43] <@nbx909> that are willing to take my case? [17:59:44] the books are all over eMule... er.. ahem... um... at your local bookstore. [17:59:45] 12 Diggs [18:00:09] Need more. [18:00:11] T.T [18:01:34] heading home [18:01:47] later alligator [18:01:53] * halonine (~halo@halo.halosrealm.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [18:01:54] <+Smirnov|work> more digggggs [18:02:08] nbx909, im not a lawyer but, mind if i ask what your case is about? [18:02:19] <@nbx909> fuck [18:02:23] <@nbx909> now she's serving me [18:02:31] <+Smirnov|work> what happened? [18:02:55] 14 diggs! [18:03:01] wii! [18:03:01] * xentek (~kurth@THX-401356B7.vermontel.net) has joined #USpirateparty [18:03:08] <@nbx909> fuck [18:03:17] greetings [18:03:20] <+Smirnov|work> if you are in any other irc channels post the story there [18:03:27] <+Smirnov|work> hi xentek, please digg our story (topic) [18:03:37] <@nbx909> she's getting me on some fake attack and some pornography charges for uploading that porn [18:04:06] dugg [18:04:20] you're being sued for porn? [18:04:23] <@nbx909> yeah [18:04:28] <@nbx909> apperently [18:04:28] ex girlfriend? [18:04:31] what the fuck? [18:04:33] <@nbx909> for uploading a shock site [18:04:41] <+Smirnov|work> how many diggs do you need to get on the politics page [18:04:43] <@nbx909> to some girls account [18:04:44] where? [18:04:48] <@nbx909> nowher [18:04:54] account on what? [18:05:38] <+Smirnov|work> does anyone here have a /. account !!! [18:05:51] I did. [18:05:55] I could make one. [18:06:01] <+Smirnov|work> Can you please post our story on /. too ? [18:06:07] yep [18:06:20] <@tommstein> slashdot's likely to reject it. they seem partial to asinine stories [18:06:20] basically, duplicate the digg article? [18:06:21] * K`Tetch is still waiting for his /. submission from the 24th to be accepted/rejected [18:06:27] <+Smirnov|work> yeah why not [18:06:37] <+Smirnov|work> i feel you brother [18:06:41] * Neural_Overload wonders where else this can be posted. [18:06:53] <+Smirnov|work> i made a games submission once about a device called a gizmondo ... never got any response [18:07:04] <@tommstein> there's free press release services [18:07:14] <+Smirnov|work> we arent making a press release [18:07:31] <@tommstein> ok [18:07:33] <+K`Tetch> why not? [18:07:47] <+Smirnov|work> because nobody ever mentioned anything about a press release [18:07:58] <+Smirnov|work> therefore to conclude that we are would be erroneous [18:08:03] * K`Tetch thought it was kinda basic [18:08:23] <+K`Tetch> press releases make the PR world go around [18:08:32] <+Smirnov|work> bring it up with the chairs if you want [18:08:38] <+K`Tetch> ah ha! slashdot finally rejected my piece [18:08:39] I think we're doing the whole digg circuit because A) it's the 4th(ish) and B) someone else would do it if we didn't [18:08:45] <+K`Tetch> i think because it reached 10 days in pending [18:08:56] <+Smirnov|work> heh [18:08:59] Neural_Overload; Fark [18:09:01] or SomethingAwful [18:09:03] <+Smirnov|work> how many diggs do we need to get on the political page [18:09:13] 16 diggs [18:09:31] <+Smirnov|work> already got 16 [18:09:32] sign up for SA forums and post there [18:09:35] <+K`Tetch> let me just publish this piece I just wrong, and I'll start knocking up a press release [18:09:39] I used to be in the digg is evil camp [18:09:46] lol [18:09:47] <+K`Tetch> yeah, i was number 16 [18:09:49] damnit, sign upfor sa :( [18:09:52] it only costs :10bux: [18:09:58] but slashdot is too slow, and the eds and mods are completley retarded. [18:10:08] bribe cmdrtaco with a burrito [18:10:25] <+Smirnov|work> we need some /. editors to join our party :-D [18:10:29] <+Smirnov|work> that would solve the problem [18:10:31] <+K`Tetch> if I had $10 I would, but I just spent an extra $120 fiing my car, and can't get my $70 for the parts that didn't work back until tommorow [18:10:43] lol [18:10:45] i have a Forums account [18:10:59] piratebay.org is down... [18:11:15] buah?? [18:11:19] server reboot. [18:11:45] I fricken hope so. Their revival restored my faith in mankind... [18:12:06] * Erik (~PP-Erik@Erik.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [18:12:06] <+Smirnov|work> they arent using clusters ? [18:12:08] it would majorly suck if I were wrong :/ [18:12:10] <+Smirnov|work> Erik did you digg it! [18:12:18] Digg what?! [18:12:22] <+Smirnov|work> TOPIC [18:12:26] topic [18:12:30] Oh, shit. [18:12:32] No. [18:12:32] <@nbx909> heh [18:12:49] Should I? [18:12:51] Are we ready for it? [18:12:58] <+Smirnov|work> yes its in the topic [18:13:04] <+Smirnov|work> dude deja vu [18:13:06] I posted to the forums, looking for others in Vermont and New Hampshire [18:13:09] <+K`Tetch> [17:22.53] *** brokep changes topic to The site is down due to some network problems - it will be online again very shortly <-- topic in #piratebay.org [18:13:20] <+Smirnov|work> post the digg url in that channel [18:13:49] <@Echelon> .. [18:13:50] Hmm. [18:13:52] <+K`Tetch> don't think it'd go down to well, comming from 'MAFIAA' [18:13:56] go on ZiRC, #sa [18:14:18] Ktech, what's the server? [18:14:38] how the hell do you submit an article to /.? [18:14:55] what is the official PB network and chan? [18:14:55] nvm [18:15:00] <+Smirnov|work> slashdot.org/submit.pl [18:15:10] thewordisavampire: upper left hand, under logo [18:15:28] xentek isnt it on efnet [18:15:48] jake: I dunno [18:15:53] <+Smirnov|work> hurry and digg some more so it shows up on the politics page [18:16:04] <+Smirnov|work> If we get it over 45 it should go on there for sure [18:16:18] xentek: Check your Vermont post. [18:16:22] <+K`Tetch> #thepiratebay.org on Efnet [18:16:33] ScrollMaker: will do [18:16:36] * LrdMtrod (~nope@THX-F84F5D8A.bredband.skanova.com) has joined #USpirateparty [18:16:39] Helloo [18:16:41] K`Tetch: thank you [18:17:30] K^Tetch: have you posted our digg link in there? [18:17:38] I come from Sweden's party of pirates... and Just want to inform you that there is now a belgique(However it's spelled in english) Piratparty as well which you might want to add to your list of international parties [18:17:40] * K`Tetch slaps xentek around with Windows Me [18:17:48] <+K`Tetch> Belgium [18:17:55] <+Smirnov|work> LrdMtrod: hail !!! what is the URL and have you dugg our site? :) [18:18:19] also gret design on your site, suits the patriotic atmosphere that US culture has but Sweden is total without. Wave a swedish flag and you will be called a raceist! [18:18:45] ^lollerskates. [18:18:53] http://www.piratpartiet.se/forum/Topic40250-15-1.aspx [18:18:56] http://www.parti-pirate.be/ [18:19:30] I hope we see a lot more pirate parties soon! [18:19:33] Actually I think there was supposed to be a link to the Belgium PP website from ours, but it's messed up. You can see it if you hover over the French link. [18:19:41] I submitted to /. [18:20:06] and we're up to 19 diggs. [18:20:33] Hey neat, a Belgium party. [18:20:37] Anyone in Canada? [18:20:51] Montreal to be more specific [18:21:02] 21 diggs now [18:21:12] Hope you will get recognistion now from wikipedia after all the last article was deleted [18:22:48] xentek: There were some Canadians who posted on the old board a while ago. [18:22:58] Not sure which part of Canada they were from. [18:23:13] <+Smirnov|work> LrdMtrod: hmm really, racist for waving the swedish flag?! [18:23:47] * nbx909 pokes snackbeard-away [18:24:13] 22 diggs. frontpage soon. [18:24:30] <+Smirnov|work> KEEP THE DIGG UP :D [18:24:36] Yeah, someone screwed up the foreign pirate party links on the site. [18:24:44] <@nbx909> WHICH ONE OF YOU FUCKERS ATTACKED HER SERVER [18:24:48] yess... we are very un nationalistic... Can be explained why by this diagram at http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/ under introduction showing 4 common traits across cultures. Read the text and you will see why Sweden isn't that patriotic [18:24:54] <+Smirnov|work> nbx909 whats wrong [18:25:04] <@nbx909> i'm getting pinned for hacking [18:25:21] <+Smirnov|work> LrdMtrod: some americans aren't either.. I am not originally from u.s. and I am often more patriotic than native born people :) [18:25:24] What do you mean? [18:25:26] <@nbx909> because one of you guys attempted to log on as root to her server [18:25:33] Oh. [18:25:36] <+Smirnov|work> what are you talking about [18:25:46] nbx909: who? [18:25:59] <@nbx909> okay whole story... some crazy girl on another network posted my information [18:26:04] <@nbx909> like [18:26:07] <@nbx909> port scan [18:26:12] <@nbx909> i told her to take it down [18:26:17] <@nbx909> and messaged her host [18:26:26] <+Smirnov|work> sweden is all the way in the top right? lol [18:26:43] I find it awsomely cool that the Movement is creating parties all over the world based on the same ideologies. A global party organisation of the people for a time where globalizm is dominating. Awsome, just plain awsome [18:27:12] <+Smirnov|work> yep, fight the power [18:27:18] <+K`Tetch> I'm not entirely sure on the 'same ideology' similar yes [18:27:31] <+Smirnov|work> germany started out as a loose confederation of states don't forget ;) [18:27:36] three ARRGHS for freedom! [18:27:38] HIP HIP [18:27:39] <+K`Tetch> patent position appears to be different betweent he US and SE parties, for isntance [18:27:41] AAAAARGH [18:27:45] <@nbx909> now there host is sueing me supposedly since i haven't gotten pappers [18:27:49] <+Smirnov|work> we don't have a patent position yet :P [18:27:49] HIP HIP [18:27:51] AAAARGH [18:27:54] HIP HIP [18:27:57] AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH [18:27:59] <+Smirnov|work> relax please [18:28:26] my slashdot article got rejected! [18:28:37] perhaps they already have one in the works? [18:28:46] they'd better. [18:28:47] <+Smirnov|work> LrdMtrod: thats weird, I found the soviet union very patriotic :P [18:28:47] Smirnov|away, it is because it has no attachements to religon, one can say we are as religious as we are patriotic(As a society that is, there is always individuals). We don't care about religion just to take an example, on sunday in church if you go to mess... There will be the preist and probably 2 or 3 old folks gathered there... [18:28:48] They are suing you nbx909? What papers? [18:28:52] <+K`Tetch> I know Smirnov|work, but 'abolition' appears like it won't be well recieved [18:29:28] <@nbx909> Erik, suing me for hacking and some federal porn laws [18:29:33] <+Smirnov|work> it is harder for someone to abolish something on which they depend [18:29:40] <+K`Tetch> says who, nbx909? [18:29:52] <+Smirnov|work> nbx909: what porn dude?? tell her to fuck off [18:29:53] <@nbx909> says a guy who says is the host [18:29:53] Being to the right on the X-axis shows how much the society's culture is recognizing the need for a knoweldgebased society where there is no need to worry about survival as you will do that with ease [18:30:16] <+Smirnov|work> Hmm.. I am arguably in the top right as well but I am still patriotic [18:30:19] Well, did you do anything wrong? [18:30:40] @ nbx909 [18:30:45] <@nbx909> Erik, not the hacking [18:30:57] so you did the porn :P [18:30:59] <@nbx909> and the porn laws will have to be thrown out [18:31:03] <+Smirnov|work> What is the red circle, ex-soviet ? [18:31:07] <@nbx909> it was a shock site [18:31:13] Why we aren't patriotic is because of our mindset to never think highly of ourselves, the same ideals as Japan has... [18:31:31] <+Smirnov|work> I thought Japan was patriotic? [18:31:42] Smirnov: They we're until we had to kick their ass. [18:31:46] were* [18:31:53] <+Smirnov|work> They're always buying japanese things instead of foreign goods, those bastards [18:31:59] well, then, after a few hundred thousand dollars of litigation, the courts will hold up your first amendment rights... Aint the judiciary great? [18:32:10] Japan is however somewhat more nationalistic... Hmm my analysis of why we aren't patriotic doesn't hold... [18:32:37] <+Smirnov|work> I always thought the Japanese were crazy nationalist bastards, thats the only reason why they would buy more expensive Japanese goods [18:32:59] <+Smirnov|work> No offence if you're Japanese, that's not a bad way to keep your economy afloat [18:33:20] We need to get this article on the front page. [18:33:26] I dunno, perhaps the governement haven't been very pushy about being patriotic in Sweden... It is certainly not easy to create that mindset when the area of the country is greater then France I would think but with a population of currently 9 millions [18:33:35] <+Smirnov|work> only registered users can see the front page though right [18:33:46] <+Smirnov|work> Yes, your country is tiny :) [18:34:07] <+Smirnov|work> Hey at least you weren't part of the USSR like Finland was ;) [18:34:17] I love Japan, probably going to settle down for a while and get a work there after my education is finished as a teacher in Sweden(Education of all levels is state financed in Sweden) [18:34:58] hehe... we had given independence to Finland a relative short period before the WW2... sorry but you are not us anymore! [18:35:26] guys... there is a different article for this webpage already on the front page with 900~ diggs. [18:35:39] <+Smirnov|work> no wei [18:35:45] wai [18:35:49] <+Smirnov|work> where [18:35:52] it goes to wikipedia [18:35:53] All our cannon barrels for defense against enemy countries have been built towards USSR since the WW2... now we don't do that anymore thank god [18:35:58] http://digg.com/politics/Pirate_Party_added_as_a_US_Political_Party [18:36:01] <+Smirnov|work> yeah thats an old one [18:36:09] oh... [18:36:09] <+Smirnov|work> 8 days ago [18:36:24] oh, this one's for the site launch. [18:36:25] gotcha. [18:37:02] er... [18:38:10] Did someone post already in the #thepiratebay ? [18:39:00] later guys [18:39:11] I'm gonna go eat some HAMBURGAAAAAAZ [18:39:11] I will if no one has yet [18:39:26] <+Smirnov|work> do it [18:39:27] wouldn't hurt to do it again! [18:39:31] * thewordisavampire (~Anon833@THX-767CC0E8.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [18:39:42] K [18:40:42] <+K`Tetch> tw - someone wanna proof read for me please - http://tinyurl.com/oz5qw [18:41:19] <+Smirnov|work> whats that have to do with the PP ? :P [18:41:39] <+K`Tetch> nothing directly [18:41:40] * nbx909 is away: dinner [18:41:49] <+K`Tetch> what it has to do with the general aims, is another matter however [18:42:23] Short and sweet. [18:42:35] <+Smirnov|work> maybe we can use your feeds somehow on our site [18:42:46] <+Smirnov|work> you just figure something out, but i like those posts and more people need to read them [18:43:49] <+Smirnov|work> garrr only 22 digs? [18:43:55] <+Smirnov|work> what are people asleep or something [18:44:00] <+K`Tetch> possibly [18:44:01] Need like 30 for front of politics page. [18:44:02] <+K`Tetch> it'll pick up [18:44:10] <+Smirnov|work> IM all your friends [18:44:31] just posted it in #thepiratebay.org...350 people in there, hopefully it helps :) [18:45:12] o0o0o [18:45:32] <+Smirnov|work> hopefullly [18:45:37] <+Smirnov|work> and hopefully you dont get banned from their chan [18:46:09] pirat [18:46:10] <+K`Tetch> why should he - bloody kdsde doesn't for setting my nickalert off all the time [18:46:36] <+Smirnov|work> heh [18:47:01] <+K`Tetch> thinking i'm 'danny boy' (dan glickman) [18:47:53] 23 diggs [18:47:57] omgwtfbbq [18:48:38] I have an idea :P [18:48:42] <+Smirnov|work> ? [18:48:55] Im gonna go get some digg.com logins from www.bugmenot.com and digg it with those [18:49:03] XD [18:49:28] I mean, if thats alright. [18:49:38] <+K`Tetch> they tend to delete the stories with the bugmenot logins on them [18:49:49] Oh [18:49:50] Okay [18:49:52] I wont then [18:52:30] :D [18:53:36] <+Smirnov|work> ugh only 23 diggs [18:54:06] <+K`Tetch> chill, it'll grow [18:54:10] <+K`Tetch> I'll write a slyck piece [18:55:06] Someone can write an article for www.zeropaid.com too. [18:55:26] I got my Pirate Bay shirts yesterday. :) [18:55:29] On your issues page, why have you made a read more for the copyrights when there is nothing mentioned about what you want to do with the copyright on the first page [18:55:51] However I like your copyright reformation... very good! [18:56:31] Probably because the website is a day old, and still quirky? :D [18:57:32] I think it's cause by default it puts in the first paragraph, and the copyright reform article has a lot of linebreaks, while the others dont :P [18:57:33] of course, I just thought I would point it out as a debuggers job of reading things [18:57:45] <+Smirnov|work> Adam if you want to make a longer summary.. :P [18:58:17] <+Smirnov|work> LrdMtrod: are you familiar with the old 1-page site, it mentioned we wanted to reform copyright :) [18:58:21] * nbx909 is back (gone 00:16:44) [18:58:23] actually I think shorter ones for the other 2 would be better... they're quite long for summaries for now [18:58:27] <+Smirnov|work> We will put up net neutrality soon and patent after a debate [18:59:41] Any word on when the debate will be? [19:00:15] 25 diggs [19:00:22] woot [19:00:34] * Anon336 (JavaUser@THX-EA4356D2.adsl.snet.net) has joined #USpirateparty [19:01:04] * Anon336 is now known as Gamer8585 [19:01:25] Hello all [19:01:43] I saw the new website, very nice. :) [19:02:00] However I think the new Fourms could use some work. [19:02:21] Thanks, and I agree, the forums need work.. [19:02:26] * halonine|sleep (~halo@THX-B81CA357.ma.biz.rr.com) has joined #USpirateparty [19:02:32] * halonine|sleep is now known as halonine [19:02:33] w00t! [19:02:40] <+Smirnov|work> we know we know, we'll get them skinned better sap [19:02:42] <+Smirnov|work> asap* [19:02:57] oh shit [19:02:57] <+Smirnov|work> gamer have you dugg our article? [19:02:59] 27 diggs [19:03:00] Yeah, the top of the website is too distracting, and the way the Dontate button over laps the text...ewww. [19:03:01] the digg article is ramping up [19:03:03] ! [19:03:04] Well your site is indeed great looking, some bugs here and there but nothing one can not handle and it's expected as the site is so new. [19:03:14] Thanks. Having a clearer distinction between posts would be wonderful.. [19:03:19] FRONT PAGE OF POLITICS [19:03:21] #1 [19:03:22] wooot [19:03:23] <+Smirnov|work> Gamer8585: please post that in website issues, more people means saying it [19:03:25] Smirnov|away, yes I am familiar with the page since the black with eagle and what now crazy page was launched [19:03:33] <+Smirnov|work> means that it will get fixed soon [19:03:36] w00t! [19:03:37] NOW ITS ON THE FRONT PAGE [19:03:38] THE FRONT FRONT [19:03:41] caps [19:03:42] sorry [19:03:52] <+Smirnov|work> oh shit its #2 on the front page [19:04:03] <+Smirnov|work> 1000 users here we go [19:04:07] <@nbx909> hahah [19:04:12] 33 Diggs [19:04:16] <+Smirnov|work> I assume you have to be logged in though [19:04:26] 35 [19:04:34] <+Smirnov|work> Just wait until we're a big party.. then we can force all of our press releases on digg easily :P [19:04:43] 38! [19:04:44] 38 [19:04:46] Lol [19:04:51] <+Smirnov|work> yeah its gonna roll now [19:05:07] oh shit [19:05:10] the site's going down [19:05:13] Should get interesting in here real quick. [19:05:27] <+Smirnov|work> hat site [19:05:36] <+Smirnov|work> oh shit [19:05:39] <+Smirnov|work> oh shit [19:05:50] Ill post a duggmirror.com link in the comments of the article [19:06:04] I don't see the topic on digg.com's frontpage [19:06:07] I'll stop hitting refresh on the forum ever 2 seconds.... [19:06:10] <+Smirnov|work> you need to be logged in [19:06:14] <+Smirnov|work> PLEASE STOP REFRESHING THE SITE LOL [19:06:29] <+Smirnov|work> ahhh fuck we need to turn on caching [19:06:29] Just kidding, yo. [19:07:17] <@nbx909> haha [19:07:29] Crap [19:07:36] duggmirror.com cant do it [19:07:43] Ill go make a coralcache link [19:07:47] oh, people, in the future we should put this on a section of digg that doesn't require registration [19:07:51] <@nbx909> site is dowm [19:07:53] <@nbx909> down [19:07:54] <@nbx909> lol [19:08:22] <+Smirnov|work> yes coral cache [19:08:26] <+Smirnov|work> ITS NOT FUCKING DOWN DONT SAY ITS DOWN NO [19:08:38] already? damn that was quick [19:08:44] The ship sank =/ [19:08:45] <+Smirnov|work> noooooooooooo [19:09:04] cool 45 diggs [19:09:28] the site's down already? :P [19:09:38] <@nbx909> hahaha [19:09:40] <@nbx909> yeah [19:09:42] 57 diggs [19:09:50] Crap [19:09:57] I didnt get to coralcache it [19:09:58] Someone have a link to a cached version? [19:10:07] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: starkbot) [19:10:19] Would have been a good idea to cache the site before posting on digg.. [19:10:40] Maybe I can get something up on piratepartyusa.com if I have enough of it in my cache [19:10:48] They still think PP.US is a scam, how paranoid people have gotten as of lately [19:10:59] <@nbx909> hah [19:11:02] <+Smirnov|work> LrdMtrod: who does [19:11:09] <+Smirnov|work> AdamG: yeah set it up as a cached mirror if you want [19:11:12] <@nbx909> site's back up [19:11:13] <+Smirnov|work> no the site isnt down dammit [19:11:16] Does this work? [19:11:18] http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:MBp_ilZZ2ecJ:www.pirate-party.us/+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1 [19:11:19] hah what kind of server is running it [19:11:20] <@nbx909> sorta [19:11:22] <+Smirnov|work> I turned on caching it should help [19:11:36] <+Smirnov|work> as long as mysql doesnt get ass pounded [19:11:44] Smirnov: but I have no idea how to do that... time to learn quick... [19:12:09] <+Smirnov|work> yeah or maybe someone can make a coral cache real quick [19:12:14] <14ninex> wait wait wait wait [19:12:17] Fatal error: Call to undefined function t() in /home/ppus/websites/www.pirate-party.us/html/modules/advuser/advuser.module on line 5 [19:12:25] <14ninex> the site is down? [19:12:26] <+Smirnov|work> where [19:12:34] Smirnov|away, the public [19:12:45] <+Smirnov|work> all right fuck the cache is going back off [19:12:49] Thats on the front [19:12:59] <14ninex> nbx909: can i pm you? [19:13:18] <+Smirnov|work> okay try againn i turned the advuser module off [19:13:40] * awayies is now known as tina [19:13:40] * tina sneaks back from hiding -[ I am hiding after ignoring you all for 90 minutes. ]- gone 1 hr 27 min 56 s [19:13:43] <7@nbx909> ninex, sure... [19:13:44] Crap, nothing is loading [19:14:12] <+Smirnov|work> thats cause i turned off cache [19:14:15] <+Smirnov|work> i disabled advuser let me try again [19:14:27] <+Smirnov|work> there we go [19:14:33] <+Smirnov|work> YEAH BABY [19:14:34] * Gamer8585 is now known as Gamer8585[afk] [19:14:35] <+Smirnov|work> LOOK AT THAT FAST SHIT [19:14:50] WHOA [19:14:51] what happened? [19:14:56] it's fast now [19:14:58] <+Smirnov|work> i tweaked that shit [19:14:59] Why is it off the digg site? [19:15:02] <+Smirnov|work> turned on cache for anonymous users [19:15:12] http://www.digg.com/view/all [19:15:16] still not working for me [19:15:27] <+Smirnov|work> hmm [19:15:34] <+Smirnov|work> it might be slow if you're logged in i dont know [19:15:51] Woops, didn't remember I was logged in.. [19:15:53] it's better than before [19:15:56] <@nbx909> Fatal error: Call to undefined function t() in /home/ppus/websites/www.pirate-party.us/html/modules/advuser/advuser.module on line 5 [19:15:57] yeah it's just slow [19:15:59] <@nbx909> sql is down [19:16:00] <@nbx909> lol [19:16:10] <+Smirnov|work> dude i turned that off [19:16:18] <+Smirnov|work> you must be viewing some outdated page [19:16:22] Its in the coralcache [19:16:29] http://www.pirate-party.us.nyud.net:8090/ [19:16:33] <@nbx909> Smirnov|work, oh okay [19:16:34] <+Smirnov|work> oh great put an error message in the coral cache [19:16:51] <+Smirnov|work> i cant access the coral cache *shrug* [19:16:52] <@nbx909> hahaahaha [19:16:56] Lol [19:17:05] Yeah, the error is stuck... [19:17:16] The google cache is outdated [19:17:21] <+Smirnov|work> hold on [19:17:29] haha [19:17:36] This is funny [19:17:55] <+Smirnov|work> I think the main site is accessible by regular users for now [19:18:10] <@nbx909> how did you do that? [19:18:10] It is now. [19:18:25] <+Smirnov|work> i told you i turned on caching [19:18:30] <+Smirnov|work> we had it off before [19:18:36] <@nbx909> i see [19:18:37] <+Smirnov|work> once i realized we were getting raped i turned it on [19:18:46] over 100 diggs now... [19:18:51] w00t! [19:19:00] <+Smirnov|work> yo what happened to the stars in the background? lol [19:19:01] <@nbx909> heh [19:19:16] <+Smirnov|work> never mind [19:19:28] <+Smirnov|work> great its spiffy now [19:19:31] <14ninex> snackbeard-work: can i PM you? [19:19:43] sur [19:19:44] e [19:19:47] <+Smirnov|work> all right time to crawl the forums [19:19:51] <+Smirnov|work> and get some dinner [19:20:06] <+Smirnov|work> keep up on the digg.com comments and bury any idiots thanks [19:20:34] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [19:20:44] * Anon278 (~Anon278@THX-767CC0E8.client.mchsi.com) has joined #USpirateparty [19:20:53] Hello. [19:20:57] * xentek is now known as xentek-afk [19:21:08] finally got frontpage [19:21:11] * Anon278 is now known as theworldisavampire [19:21:43] <+Smirnov|work> wow some idiot said we would give out our information to the RIAA [19:21:44] <+Smirnov|work> bury it [19:21:57] already did. [19:22:40] they think it's a scam or som'n [19:22:58] <+Smirnov|work> yeah idiots [19:23:05] <+Smirnov|work> our site is hosted in sweden we aint giving out shit [19:23:29] even if it was a US based site, they have no right to. [19:23:36] <+K`Tetch> nothing illegal about membership of a political party [19:23:36] <+Smirnov|work> once we get the radar i'm sure we'll have some tools ready to quickly wipe any important data if it comes to that [19:23:54] <+Smirnov|work> but i really don't think we'll need to do anything drastic, we aren't supporting anything illegal after all [19:24:14] <+Smirnov|work> ugh its down to #5 on the front page? how does that work [19:24:18] We just have to watch out for people who support us.. [19:24:39] try explaining to some dumbass republican who can't accept facts that we aren't affiliated with illegal activity. [19:24:42] <+K`Tetch> of course, has to be registered as a political party first [19:24:58] <+Smirnov|work> Yeah we need to get started on that soon....;P [19:25:01] <+K`Tetch> thats the fun of PR, theworldisavampire [19:25:08] <+Smirnov|work> snackbeard were we going to use a drupal module for a wiki? [19:26:14] Still top of politics [19:26:25] Smirnov|work: Started??? We've been working on that since the beginning. And I have no idea about a wiki module [19:27:00] <+K`Tetch> snackbeard-work - just getting established in one state will make things about 10x earlier [19:27:15] earlier? [19:27:20] <+K`Tetch> easier [19:27:24] ah [19:27:35] <+K`Tetch> sorry, wifes talking in one ear at kids who're shouting in the other [19:27:37] Make Minnesota first! [19:27:56] ... neither of whom can see the screen, i presume :P [19:27:57] There are a lot of pirates in Minnesota. [19:28:02] <+K`Tetch> that means 31,000 signitures [19:28:04] <+Smirnov|work> yarr please dont use frappr anymore [19:28:22] I didn't post a link this time. :P [19:28:29] <+K`Tetch> AdamG - they can't read it, too far away [19:28:31] How can I get involved with petitioning? [19:28:40] <+Smirnov|work> we will be adding a gmap module soon for registered members only or something like that [19:28:40] <+K`Tetch> and the text is too small [19:29:07] * Anon026 (~Anon026@THX-7418129C.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) has joined #USpirateparty [19:29:14] <+Smirnov|work> hello [19:29:17] hi [19:29:21] I would appreciate something like that, just don't get the server raided.. [19:29:26] 140 Digs [19:29:28] Diggs* [19:29:36] <+Smirnov|work> its not in the USA they dont have any rights to do that [19:29:43] <+K`Tetch> erik - political party, can't be done without good reason [19:29:44] can anyone give me more info about the party [19:29:55] check out the site [19:29:56] Illegal activity is a good reason. [19:29:56] <@nbx909> Anon026, check out the webiste? [19:29:58] <@nbx909> lol [19:30:02] <@nbx909> Erik, like what? [19:30:19] Just sayin'. Don't do anything illegal if you are working on the site.. [19:30:37] Pretty obvious, I guess. [19:30:57] * Anon026 (~Anon026@THX-7418129C.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) Quit (Quit: Anon026) [19:31:08] basically, we're all now prime targets for raids or lawsuits [19:31:24] :X [19:31:47] I hope we all get arrested. More publicity! [19:31:48] <+Smirnov|work> hey more free publicity for us. [19:31:49] <@nbx909> AdamG, why is that? [19:31:50] don't fileshare copyrighted content, throw away any media with illegally obtained stuff, etc [19:32:03] <@nbx909> AdamG, that's destruction of evidence [19:32:04] Good idea, AdamG. [19:32:04] nbx909: So the **AA's can discredit us [19:32:04] <@nbx909> lol [19:32:05] * starkbot (~starkbot@starkbot.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: starkbot) [19:32:22] * Gamer8585[afk] is now known as Gamer8585 [19:32:23] nbx909: Only if you're already indichted (how do you spell that anyway) [19:32:31] I'm bcak [19:32:31] <@nbx909> AdamG, well we don't allow it on our servers [19:32:38] <@nbx909> so if you are on irc you are safe [19:33:01] Seriously though, are we now targets? [19:33:07] no [19:33:13] K [19:33:15] not a bit. [19:33:18] well, potentially, yes. [19:33:19] * Erik adds prepends a '.' to his music folder [19:33:24] They still need a court order. [19:33:27] I know, but if the **AA's get a hold of our IP's, and they probaly will, they'll probably double-check their lists of filesharers to see if we show up... [19:33:51] what about in the case of Dynamic IPs? [19:33:54] If this thing gets a huge following, the **IA will try to discredit us saying we are supporting illegal activity. [19:34:07] <@nbx909> AdamG, we don't release ips to the open [19:34:12] so don't give them probable cause, and if they forge probable cause, don't give them anything to charge you with [19:34:13] Yeah, true. [19:34:50] nbx909: I'm not saying you will. But caution should be the rule, particularly after hte piratebay incident [19:35:06] <@nbx909> yeah [19:35:14] Does the site save IPs anywhere? [19:35:22] <@nbx909> AdamG, why do you think i'm ipv6ed with a hostmask> [19:35:47] allright see you guys later and keep up the good work. Pirates unite! [19:35:51] <@nbx909> heh [19:35:59] <@tommstein> look at the bright side, if they seize the servers of a political party that is doing absolutely nothing illegal, we'll have advertising money as a result of the lawsuit [19:36:02] * Gamer8585 pumps fist in air [19:36:07] * LrdMtrod (~nope@THX-F84F5D8A.bredband.skanova.com) Quit (Quit: ZzZzZz may poseidon be with you) [19:36:20] no... we'll be bankrupt because of the lawsuit :P [19:36:36] <@tommstein> the lawsuit that we file? [19:36:51] <+Smirnov|work> we'll get lawyers pro bono [19:36:51] <@nbx909> yeah [19:36:52] <@nbx909> lol [19:36:58] <@nbx909> we have lawyers [19:36:59] <@nbx909> er [19:37:02] <@nbx909> a lawyer [19:37:02] <@nbx909> lol [19:37:04] sweet. [19:37:41] I bet the **AA's will just ignore us until we become large enough to be considered a threat. [19:37:50] Yeah [19:37:53] <+Smirnov|work> heh pirate party? what pirate party [19:37:54] <@nbx909> yep [19:37:58] <+Smirnov|work> i dont know what youre talking about [19:38:04] So I wouldn't worry too much about file sharing until we get big. [19:38:23] Then we might need to use proxies for that kind of stuff. [19:38:25] <@nbx909> this is the US P I rate party [19:38:35] <@nbx909> lol [19:38:37] <+Smirnov|work> umm...? [19:38:44] <@nbx909> er [19:38:49] <@nbx909> USP I RATE [19:38:50] <@nbx909> lol [19:38:51] ??? [19:38:52] <+Smirnov|work> I think you should know we don't support nor condone any unauthorized works redistribution [19:38:53] <@nbx909> lol [19:38:54] <@tommstein> i need to continue working on the design of my anonymous file-sharing protocol [19:39:02] <@tommstein> and encrypted [19:39:06] <@nbx909> Gamer8585, er yeah [19:39:12] woot, I'm getting through to you , smirnov! [19:39:21] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein you mean like freenet? [19:39:22] <@nbx909> what Smirnov said [19:39:32] I have been ACKNOWLEDGE! [19:39:38] lol [19:39:41] <+Smirnov|work> mark my words, if anyone else brings up file sharing again, please tell them our stance [19:39:42] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, no, i mean nonsorry, unlike freenet [19:39:48] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein nonsorry ? [19:40:00] <@tommstein> yes [19:40:01] <@nbx909> Gamer8585, and in here that stuff is prohibited due to network rules [19:40:14] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: yes what, what do you mean? [19:40:19] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: also are you aware of waste? [19:40:37] <@tommstein> what i want to do is along the lines of mute [19:40:39] I wasn't talkin about file trading here, just in general. [19:40:45] <+Smirnov|work> or that you can do bittorrent over i2p? [19:40:50] and there's MUTE... [19:40:51] G2, ED2K, BT, Etc. [19:40:51] * corevette (corevette@corevette.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [19:40:58] <+Smirnov|work> MUTE? what's that? [19:40:59] * Topic is '[Pirate Party of The United States of America] [ http://www.pirate-party.us/ ] [Digg this http://digg.com/politics/The_Pirate_Party_of_the_United_States_site_launches ]' [19:40:59] * Set by nbx909 on Wed Jul 05 17:42:20 [19:41:09] out of curiosity, is the logo supposed to be representing a 'p'? [19:41:17] as well as a flag? [19:41:20] yeah, kinda. [19:41:21] <+Smirnov|work> no doubt [19:41:24] and a sail. [19:41:27] oooh good point. [19:41:28] yeah [19:41:30] thats what i meant [19:41:33] hadn't noticed that. [19:41:33] Yarrr. [19:41:53] <+Smirnov|work> hadn't seen mute before, what makes it anonymous? [19:42:00] <+Smirnov|work> does it do some onion routing? [19:42:11] I have no idea :P [19:42:16] 200Diggs [19:42:23] sweet. [19:42:25] * Anon212 (~Anon212@THX-C6C64A00.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #USpirateparty [19:42:29] <@tommstein> no direct connections, just onion routing with special ids instead of network addresses [19:42:43] <+Smirnov|work> ah thats it? i was expecting more [19:42:59] <@tommstein> i haven't checked it in a while [19:43:05] <@tommstein> i forget if it uses encryption [19:43:06] <+Smirnov|work> I dunno, anonymous file sharing is a waste of time right now IMO [19:43:14] sounds good. How big is the network, and what kind of speeds do you get? [19:43:18] yeah it is. [19:43:24] <+Smirnov|work> It can be defeated with a global adversary and there's too few good connections in the U.S. [19:43:29] <@tommstein> i don't use it [19:43:49] <+Smirnov|work> Even i2p is prone to being defeated by someone listening to all traffic [19:43:52] <@tommstein> i tried a long time ago, couldn't download anything, and gave up [19:44:06] <+Smirnov|work> Then from the usability side there need to be more people and more files :P [19:44:09] * Anon212 (~Anon212@THX-C6C64A00.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Anon212) [19:44:10] * Anon620 (~Anon620@1A7D05EB.D7A5F232.3A0F1106.IP) has joined #USpirateparty [19:44:10] <+Smirnov|work> and it shouldn't be slow as hell :P [19:44:22] <+Smirnov|work> Now *secure* file sharing is another story altogether [19:44:28] <+Smirnov|work> That I would go for [19:44:40] how would that work? SSL? [19:44:45] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, that's what i'm mainly concerned about, speed [19:45:06] * Anon620 (~Anon620@1A7D05EB.D7A5F232.3A0F1106.IP) Quit (Quit: Anon620) [19:45:18] <+Smirnov|work> except they could still bust you for sharing your files I guess [19:45:35] nope, only if they can prove the files are copyrighted. [19:45:50] if not they have no probable cause to get a warrent. [19:45:53] <+Smirnov|work> yeah, you would browse to someone and see they are sharing copyrighted material, bam subpoena [19:45:57] <@tommstein> in something like mute, all they know is that someone with id abc43554b2324343e35f2432 is sharing a file [19:46:18] RIAA can't sue you for files that they don't have the rights to. [19:46:55] <+Smirnov|work> an encrypted tracker is a good idea though [19:47:00] <+Smirnov|work> i think [19:47:05] <+Smirnov|work> trackers dont host any copyrighted materials [19:47:05] yup, and they can't examin at the data without breaking the law. [19:47:16] Yeap [19:47:17] <@tommstein> when we talk about the riaa, it might be good to make more mention that we're really talking about corporations like sony, time warner, etc., since they're the ones holding the copyrights and doing the actual suing, not the riaa [19:47:18] tell that to the sweedish govenment. [19:47:23] ScrollMaker: They still do [19:47:32] ='( [19:47:32] And then people settle, so they never have to get into the lawsuit portion [19:47:35] RIAA is easier. [19:47:40] <+Smirnov|work> well no, they could join the swarm and after you download an entire file from the swarm they'd have proof..mmm [19:47:48] <@tommstein> sony would just like us to oppose the "RIAA" instead of "Sony" [19:47:50] <+Smirnov|work> there is no way to get around it heh [19:47:55] tommstein: Except it very rarely actually gets to suing. [19:48:14] yeah, people get scarred and just settle. [19:48:19] yeah [19:48:25] <+Smirnov|work> you can get a good level of anonymity until the RIAA/MPAA pressure the government into letting them watch ISP traffic [19:48:30] Most cases get thrown out if i remember correctly [19:48:32] <@tommstein> thank you, that changes the substance of what i was saying [19:48:45] <+Smirnov|work> and then you're fucked anyways cause its trivial to figure out whose connected to who once you can see everything [19:48:47] But you have a point, tommstein: we must stop feeding money into the system that screws everyone. [19:49:17] Let P2P be our form of civil disobediance. [19:49:27] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, not if traffic is encrypted, with public key encryption, say. the only way around that is to literally run man [19:49:34] * Gamer8585 can't spell for shit. [19:49:42] Not with the Pirate Party, Gamer. Do that on your own bandwidth :P [19:49:44] <@tommstein> man-in-the-middle attacks on every connection in the country [19:49:51] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: sorry mate, i researched this because i wanted to do the same thing, read up on global adversary spying [19:49:57] <@nbx909> Gamer8585, not here [19:50:10] * sabrebutt (~cal@THX-F250675A.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #USpirateparty [19:50:10] <14ninex> lol [19:50:16] I was trying to be ironic. [19:50:21] <14ninex> sure you were [19:50:34] I guess it didn't come across very well with text. [19:50:35] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, this enables you to break public key encryption? has the inventor applied for his nobel prize yet? [19:50:42] <+Smirnov|work> ... no [19:50:49] <+Smirnov|work> you're kidding right? [19:50:55] <+Smirnov|work> if you're id 12345 and you're sharing a copyrighted file [19:50:59] <+Smirnov|work> and if I download that from you [19:51:02] <+Smirnov|work> I know you're sharing illegal stuff [19:51:07] <+Smirnov|work> All I need to know next is where to find you [19:51:13] <14ninex> i found a way to break public key encryption [19:51:37] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, that's why it would be used in conjunction with onion routing [19:51:54] <+Smirnov|work> this is aggravating, can't you educate yourself? please use google [19:52:12] Id think onion routing would be breakable too [19:52:15] <+Smirnov|work> Onion routing is especially bad against a global adversary [19:52:22] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, can't you educate yourself? i already started designing my protocol and did research [19:52:28] <+Smirnov|work> The tunnel doesn't even change in the duration of the session [19:52:40] what sort of skills are needed to be on the "PR Team?" [19:52:46] and/or experience [19:52:52] <+Smirnov|work> Why are you arguing then? The government can break onion routing if they wanted to [19:53:15] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, if nodes never say that they have a certain file, just that someone somewhere does, that doesn't tell you what i'm sharing [19:53:26] <+Smirnov|work> Onion routers is even worse than garlic routing, having super peers is stupid [19:53:28] <@nbx909> nc, email those questions to info@pirate-party.us with the subject PR-TEAM questions [19:53:37] o ok [19:53:37] <+Smirnov|work> http://www.google.com/search?hs=I3v&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=global+adversary+onion+routing&btnG=Search [19:53:57] <@tommstein> thank you, my fingers are broken and i can't type google searches [19:54:10] thank goodness you can still click with the eye-blinky-thingy [19:54:19] <@tommstein> thank goodness [19:54:23] :P [19:54:50] this is fun [19:55:30] <+Smirnov|work> Please tell me you've at the minimum read this.. http://www.i2p.net/how_networkcomparisons ? [19:56:04] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, tell me this: if all connections on a network are encrypted, and when you connect to me all i tell you is that someone somewhere is sharing a file, how does that tell you what i'm sharing? [19:56:44] <+Smirnov|work> by noticing a traffic spike when you start sending me the file [19:56:46] <@Ragnar> tommstein: how does that limited functionality make a working p2p net? [19:56:57] 250 diggs [19:57:21] <@tommstein> Ragnar, because you connect back to me, and i connect back to the next node on the route to whoever has the file, etc. [19:57:22] <+Smirnov|work> and wouldnt you know it, your computer wont be receiving as much data as its sending out, therefore you have the file.. [19:57:22] * Chiisuchianu (Chiisuchia@THX-E7027DB3.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #USpirateparty [19:57:31] HAIL PIRATE PARTY [19:57:37] <+Smirnov|work> hi [19:57:40] yo [19:57:41] hello [19:57:46] Hiya [19:57:48] <@Ragnar> tommstein: meaning you eventually will find the route to the source file. [19:57:53] nice to meet you all, brothers [19:58:02] <@tommstein> Ragnar, how? [19:58:29] <@tommstein> Ragnar, you never talk to anyone but me, even if someone else has the file [19:58:29] <@Ragnar> by compromising your traffic and checking which IPs you connect to [19:58:31] <+Smirnov|work> onion routing is great against protecting from your local admin but against a few listeners it shows its weak points [19:58:42] <+Smirnov|work> I loved how he ignored my two comments [19:59:02] <@tommstein> what, about whether i had read a page that won't load? [19:59:17] <+Smirnov|work> no about the traffic spikes.. [19:59:43] <@tommstein> do you believe that your file download will be the only network traffic? [19:59:53] Who is Jaybob404? [20:00:03] Me. [20:00:06] <+Smirnov|work> LOL [20:00:13] <@tommstein> nodes will always be sending and receiving more and less traffic [20:00:20] <@Ragnar> statistically speaking yes, since it'll be easy to do a time analysis [20:00:21] <+Smirnov|work> if your average is 10 kbps [20:00:28] <+Smirnov|work> and suddenly you go up to 1000 kbps [20:00:36] <+Smirnov|work> i wonder whats going on there [20:00:54] <@tommstein> you're transferring some file [20:00:57] <@tommstein> who knows what [20:01:06] <+Smirnov|work> then you introduce a few rogue people who coordinate their file transfers from you and it gets even easier [20:01:21] <+Smirnov|work> but its TRIVIAL to determine if you are the end point or not [20:01:45] <@tommstein> the end point of what? a connection whose contents you know nothing about? [20:01:53] <@Ragnar> btw there's a nice solution to that: use IPv6 mulitcast groups [20:01:54] * Anon310 (JavaUser@THX-234737A3.dslextreme.com) has joined #USpirateparty [20:02:01] <@tommstein> thsi is why encryption was invented. do you have a way to force me to connect to only your nodes? [20:02:02] <@Ragnar> multi* [20:02:36] * Anon310 (JavaUser@THX-234737A3.dslextreme.com) Quit (Quit: Anon310) [20:02:41] * Anon808 (JavaUser@THX-234737A3.dslextreme.com) has joined #USpirateparty [20:02:46] <+Smirnov|work> lol [20:02:50] <+Smirnov|work> what part of global adversary did you miss [20:02:51] <@tommstein> a million nodes out there, i connect to say 20, and they're all going to happen to be yours? and not only that, you're going to know that i'm only connected to yours? [20:03:00] <+K`Tetch> this channel is certainly bigger than it was a week ago [20:03:02] <+Smirnov|work> do you know what a global adversary is? [20:03:09] <@tommstein> does this global adversary make my program do whatever he wants? [20:03:23] <@Ragnar> encryption gives you nothing in this case. either you need a public key infrastructure that can't be compromised or you can only use symmetric crypto which is worthless for what you want. [20:03:24] <+Smirnov|work> this global adversary has broken onion routing [20:03:39] <+Smirnov|work> encryption works when you're on the other end [20:03:48] * Anon808 (JavaUser@THX-234737A3.dslextreme.com) Quit (Quit: Anon808) [20:03:56] <+Smirnov|work> you will still need to implement an otr-like scheme to have backwards deniability [20:04:00] <@tommstein> you keep saying that, you just forgot to mention how [20:04:07] <+Smirnov|work> lol [20:04:15] <+Smirnov|work> i thought you did your research [20:04:40] I tab back ten minutes later and you two are still arguing? [20:04:42] <+Smirnov|work> I just told you how I can find out who the end point is, didn't I? [20:04:52] <@tommstein> not research on asinine issues like if the ??aa takes control of every computer, router, and program on the globe [20:05:11] <+K`Tetch> whoa whoa guys, keep it on the friendly, yeah [20:05:23] <@tommstein> no, you told me how you can find out that someone is transferring... something [20:05:26] <@Echelon> friendly people weewee. [20:05:29] <+Smirnov|work> mmm... security models are important [20:05:35] * theworldisavampire (~Anon278@THX-767CC0E8.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [20:05:41] <@Echelon> be nice nice nice nice nice nice nice nice nice be. [20:06:01] Lol [20:06:02] <+Smirnov|work> I don't remember the technical details of onion routing off the top of my head, it's security model was too weak for me to extensively study it [20:06:02] <+K`Tetch> so write down your arguments, and we'll ahve a thesis-off - its like a danceoff, but less spandex [20:06:04] <@tommstein> gee, i wonder how i'll evade the industry when they implant an electrode directly into my brain [20:06:20] <@nbx909> K`Tetch, haha [20:06:23] <@tommstein> but i like spandex [20:06:29] <@Ragnar> that may be sooner then you think :) [20:06:31] for all non-diggers here, everyone should check out this speech made by a valedictorian. he belittles society and the educational system, worth a read and its relevant because this is part of our common enemy http://digg.com/politics/High_school_valedictorian_s_speech_condemns_U.S._education_system [20:06:33] <+K`Tetch> me too, edpending on who its on [20:06:50] tommstein: eat onions until your brain dies, taking the implant with it. [20:06:58] * corevette (corevette@corevette.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [20:06:58] it's foolproof [20:07:03] <+Smirnov|work> you can break onion routing just by compromising cors slowly anyway [20:07:08] <@tommstein> AdamG, i think you're on to something [20:07:09] <+K`Tetch> Chiisuchianu i've been belittling the Us educations ystem for years [20:07:15] as have i [20:07:18] * Anon572 (~Anon572@THX-2953E620.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #USpirateparty [20:07:19] <+K`Tetch> I can't wait now, because this year my eldest does Us history [20:07:22] among other things [20:07:40] <+Smirnov|work> when a request goes to your computer to download a file, i can see if you are the end point or not by looking at your traffic [20:08:00] i remember learning u.s. history in school, what a crock of shit and lies [20:08:12] <@tommstein> how will you know a request went to my computer? because you have a computer that can break encryption? [20:08:21] <+Smirnov|work> um [20:08:33] <+Smirnov|work> delayed time analysis over a prolonged period of time [20:08:47] * Chiisuchianu (Chiisuchia@THX-E7027DB3.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Quit:) [20:08:49] <+Smirnov|work> 100 computers requesting the same file over the period of several days, months, whatever [20:09:29] <@tommstein> gee, i hope i'm not the only person on the network with the file [20:09:35] <@tommstein> for months at a time [20:09:37] <+Smirnov|work> dude, its like you woke up yesterday [20:09:51] <@tommstein> i did wake up yesterday. but then i went back to sleep, and got back up today [20:09:53] <+Smirnov|work> if I see everyone's traffic I can tell where you are connected to [20:10:02] <+Smirnov|work> I can tell you are connected on a tunnel through A and B [20:10:12] 300+ Diggs [20:10:17] <+Smirnov|work> so it doesnt matter if a thousand people have the file, cause I will find out the one who is sending it to me [20:10:20] <@tommstein> oh, you're still on the "??aa is God Almighty, try to evade them" scenario [20:10:27] <+Smirnov|work> No, I'm not [20:10:52] <+Smirnov|work> You are failing to realize that onion routing simply doesn't prevent certain attack vectors [20:11:01] <@tommstein> they can see everyone in the world's traffic, i think you are [20:11:04] Onions taste pretty good [20:11:10] Smirnov, onion routing isn't too good [20:11:13] <+Smirnov|work> and rather than googling and admitting your mistake, you keep arguing [20:11:13] but it's decent for some/most things [20:11:31] I like swords. [20:11:42] * jake casts Bio3 [20:11:43] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, have you ever read how mute works? [20:11:44] <+Smirnov|work> "everyone in the world?" onion routing tries to seek low latency tunnels which means all in the USA... [20:12:05] Can I have onions on my ice cream? [20:12:27] <+Smirnov|work> yes and you never said you were doing antnet [20:12:32] only if you use chocolates sprinkles. [20:12:45] <@nbx909> Anon572, no [20:12:46] <@tommstein> that has a formal name now? [20:12:47] Hmm I'll take that under consideration. [20:12:55] <@tommstein> antnet? [20:13:00] <+Smirnov|work> antnet is the routing algorithm mute uses.. [20:13:06] * Anon572 is now known as warp9pnt9 [20:13:07] <+Smirnov|work> http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/57701.html [20:13:24] Smirnov|work: do you have header_stars.jpg as a svg by chance? [20:13:30] <@tommstein> that was actually more what i had in mind, regardless of what fruity name it may have [20:13:42] <+Smirnov|work> will-sama nope but TheWizrd or MaxPa might [20:14:13] okay thanks [20:15:07] <+Smirnov|work> Much better than onion routing, but still I have not seen any algorithms yet not vulnerable to a global adversary [20:15:23] nifty little java irc client app [20:15:45] <@tommstein> damn, we could have saved a lot of arguing if i had said "antnet" then [20:15:53] lol [20:16:20] <+Smirnov|work> If I understand correctly, the ants still try to construct shorter paths [20:17:14] <@tommstein> theoretically, but from reading about how mute actually works, i didn't see that it implements any "best path" stuff [20:17:28] <@tommstein> that would be hard to do without giving away valuable information [20:18:09] <+Smirnov|work> I guess what really matters is if you'll be going for speed or for privacy.. unfortunately they conflict [20:18:20] How does the discussion relate to US Priate Party (if at all, not that it has to or anything, just curious) [20:18:27] *Pirate [20:18:48] <+Smirnov|work> we started out by talking about software piracy and he said he's making a new file sharing program [20:18:57] ahh [20:19:08] Privacy != Piracy ;) [20:19:39] <@nbx909> heh [20:20:17] * Anon084 (~Anon084@THX-E3205522.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) has joined #USpirateparty [20:20:18] A subtle distinction often lost [20:20:20] * Anon443 (~Anon443@THX-2139FBD2.ri.ri.cox.net) has joined #USpirateparty [20:20:20] <@tommstein> yeah, as long as traffic is going through a bunch of other peers, it's going to be slow [20:20:38] <@tommstein> although it'll be an interesting challenge for me to try to make it faster [20:20:56] <@tommstein> if there's even much that can be done [20:21:13] * Anon084 is now known as lokololi15 [20:21:19] <+Smirnov|work> well as long as the NSA and the *AA don't become buddy-buddies we'll be ok [20:21:30] hahahahaha [20:21:36] <@nbx909> haha [20:21:37] <@tommstein> i'm hoping that doesn't happen [20:21:46] Who's on who's payroll anyways? [20:21:50] <@nbx909> nobody? [20:21:51] <@nbx909> lol [20:22:12] <@tommstein> here's a quick idea to run through you that i just made up: what if nodes always send the same amount of traffic to each other, even if most or all of it is "idle" traffic? wouldn't that complicate matters greatly? [20:22:19] hey [20:22:27] * Anon443 hates anony [20:22:32] * Anon443 is now known as naterd00d [20:22:34] k [20:22:39] <@nbx909> heh [20:22:41] * ScrollMaker golfclaps [20:22:57] will the pirate party be electing a presidential candidate? or are you more of an organization, and less a party [20:23:16] how old is this party? will you guys have a candidate in november for some states? [20:23:17] <+Smirnov|work> We're a party, I don't think we'll be in the runnings though :P [20:23:19] <@tommstein> i'm pretty sure we're a party, hence the name [20:23:25] <+Smirnov|work> (for the president) [20:23:40] I think the opeable word is party, as in, "Party On, Dude!" ;-) [20:23:49] <@nbx909> no [20:23:55] <@nbx909> we are a political party [20:23:57] arr *operable [20:24:08] <@tommstein> operative [20:24:17] wikipedia called u guys a beareu [20:24:22] Ahh well, I got the root word. [20:24:24] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: that would be the best way to do it, but you would be limited by those with low max speeds [20:24:26] or however the hell u spell it [20:24:27] <@tommstein> that's because wikipedia is retarded [20:24:28] duhhrr [20:24:36] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: and also you would need millions of people to be in on that [20:25:06] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: I can't seem to find details of mute's antnet implementation? It seems like antnet always searches for the shortest path and you said mute doesn't do that [20:25:44] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, not from what i could tell. maybe they're not a "real" antnet. or maybe they just didn't go into detail on that [20:26:05] is your big focus on just copyright? where does this party stand on other things like education and legislature? [20:26:06] All I want to know is when does the pillaging and plundering start. I can't wait for the plundering. :p [20:26:16] <@nbx909> naterd00d, well we do not have official political party status yet [20:26:17] <+Smirnov|work> lokoli15: IP and privacy I guess [20:26:24] <@nbx909> warp9pnt9, that will never happen.... [20:26:28] <@tommstein> lokololi15, nowhere. ask your running candidate if you want to know what they believe [20:26:30] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: yeah doesnt seem like antnet is very privacy oriented the more I look at it [20:26:51] <@nbx909> lokololi15, that will be up to the canidates i believe [20:27:01] <@nbx909> lokololi15, but check out the website [20:27:07] <+Smirnov|work> antnet's certainly is a nice routing algorithms for general traffic though [20:27:08] <@nbx909> and post it in the forums [20:27:13] alright, I deinitely will [20:27:14] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, yeah, i don't see how you could do it without a glorified "hops" field, which screws your privacy up [20:27:51] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: well i dont know how slow you want it to go, you can always check out garlic routing (reference implementation at i2p.net) [20:28:41] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, i think i will. but it just occurs to me that i2p.net hasn't worked from my computer since i first visited this irc channel [20:28:43] <+Smirnov|work> I kind of like how freenet slowly copies the most popular files to people's harddrives though so its not as easy to tell who its originating from [20:28:59] <+Smirnov|work> wish it scaled better [20:29:04] http://gonintendo.com/?p=3498 lawl [20:29:04] <@nbx909> freenet is full of child pron [20:29:14] <@tommstein> so is the rest of the internet [20:29:15] <+Smirnov|work> is it? i havent checked it in a while [20:29:34] <@nbx909> Smirnov|work, yeah i ran it while back and had to kill it [20:29:38] <@nbx909> it was horrible [20:29:41] * lokololi15 (~Anon084@THX-E3205522.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: lokololi15) [20:29:45] <+Smirnov|work> hey nobody would've known :P [20:29:57] To enter legislative politics, and draft or change laws, it generally takes a modicum knowledge of how the law works, and extensive experience in legal debates. I didn't see any legal-types or political science majors on the board. Is this a viable party? [20:30:09] <@nbx909> Smirnov|work, we do not condone nor support that kind of activity.... [20:30:09] <@nbx909> :P [20:30:13] <@tommstein> no, we're closing shop tomorrow [20:30:23] <+Smirnov|work> warp9pnt9: as you might know from digg we only launched our site on july 4th around midnight and it only got to the digg front page 2 hours ago. [20:30:57] warp9pnt9, we just started this party. Give us some time to form all of our positions. [20:30:59] <@nbx909> Smirnov|work, though i think we should definatly condone that [20:31:01] <@nbx909> lol [20:31:02] <@nbx909> er [20:31:07] <@nbx909> crap [20:31:08] <@nbx909> lol [20:31:11] We are a serious political party. [20:31:14] <+Smirnov|work> uhh.... nbx? [20:31:15] <@tommstein> condone child porn? huh? [20:31:17] <+Smirnov|work> is there something you're not telling us? [20:31:27] <@nbx909> NO [20:31:31] o_0 [20:31:34] <@nbx909> i got my words mixed up [20:31:35] <@nbx909> >< [20:31:44] <@nbx909> give me a break [20:31:45] <@nbx909> lol [20:31:45] freaudian slip? [20:31:49] <@nbx909> no [20:31:56] <@tommstein> a party like would have never been started by a bunch of lawyers or political scientists [20:32:19] <@tommstein> they'll join as time goes by, hopefully [20:32:20] yeah they would have been too busy makeing money in the current system [20:32:22] <+Smirnov|work> shit [20:32:34] What? [20:32:41] I'm minoring in Political Science. [20:33:02] <@nbx909> condemn* [20:33:24] <@nbx909> we should condemn child pron [20:33:29] two words, so close, but only one will get you shunned by your community. [20:33:33] lol [20:33:34] <@nbx909> lol [20:33:36] <@tommstein> sure that's what you meant... [20:33:42] * Neural_Overload (~Bio_Hazar@Neural_Overload.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Mooz0rz) [20:33:54] <@nbx909> IT IS [20:34:04] of courrrrse it is. [20:34:05] <@tommstein> i believe you, i do [20:34:19] * naterd00d (~Anon443@THX-2139FBD2.ri.ri.cox.net) Quit (Quit: naterd00d) [20:34:27] * Gamer8585 pats nbx909 on the head [20:34:31] <@tommstein> Smirnov|work, why were we all supposed to shit a minute ago? [20:34:32] <+Smirnov|work> who is Jaybob404 on digg? [20:34:45] <+Smirnov|work> tommstein: shit a minute ago? what lol ? [20:34:45] <@nbx909> ? [20:34:52] <@tommstein> you said "shit" [20:34:56] Not me. [20:34:57] <@tommstein> but didn't specify why [20:35:06] poopie. [20:35:16] <+Smirnov|work> hmm [20:35:17] I majored in BS, and minored in CS, maybe I can help. :p [20:35:22] <+Smirnov|work> someone posted on digg about not seeing any content [20:35:24] Smirnov|work: I was wondering the same thing. [20:35:26] <+Smirnov|work> but I checked and they can [20:35:33] <+Smirnov|work> must have been a cache issue for them [20:35:46] <@tommstein> BS? [20:35:53] A major in BullShit and a minor in Counter-Strike. My kind of Curriculum. lol [20:35:56] <@tommstein> business? [20:36:02] <@tommstein> biology? [20:36:09] <@tommstein> buffoonery? [20:36:27] <@nbx909> bs is a type of degree [20:36:30] Bachlor of Science [20:36:33] <@nbx909> yeah [20:36:35] * Anon545 (~Anon545@THX-A0662453.lisco.net) has joined #USpirateparty [20:36:41] I'm guessing the major was libreal arts. [20:36:43] <@nbx909> but you have to be like chemistry bs [20:36:45] <@tommstein> i know, but you don't major in "bachelor of science" [20:36:49] <@nbx909> yeah [20:37:00] <+Smirnov|work> heh [20:37:05] <@tommstein> i have a bs in cs, not a bs in bs [20:37:06] <+Smirnov|work> how do you major in a BS? lol [20:37:11] :D [20:37:25] <@nbx909> warp9pnt9, care to explain? [20:37:26] <+Smirnov|work> oh i get it, law major? :P [20:37:32] Oh I see you have your Bachlor of Science in Computer Science. [20:37:35] I was joking, majored in BullShit, har har [20:37:55] * nc is in highschool :/ [20:37:57] how about "we adopt the Pirate symbolism as an homage to the creative artists to the past, or as they would now be known, Pirates, theives, and copyright infringers" [20:38:00] * Anon545 is now known as Ninja [20:38:04] <@tommstein> and you just watched us all strain our brains for 5 minutes. that is cruel [20:38:12] <+Smirnov|work> its a ninja [20:38:14] <+Smirnov|work> get ready everyone [20:38:17] Ninja's are better [20:38:22] Actually I have somehow taken 5.5 years of post secondary schooling and managed to escape without a degree. :D [20:38:36] * Ninja (~Anon545@THX-A0662453.lisco.net) Quit (Quit: Ninja) [20:38:40] <@nbx909> adsfdsf [20:38:43] dude you suck. [20:38:44] <@nbx909> i was just about to kick him [20:38:46] <+Smirnov|work> Son, in this new era of the 7/6/06 you can too join the party [20:38:49] as an answer to a still-hypothetical FAQ [20:38:54] <+Smirnov|work> damn.. I said such a patriotic thing too [20:38:55] an on a related note, we need a FAQ [20:38:58] <@nbx909> Smirnov|work, ahahahah [20:39:07] <@tommstein> it's like a dude that taught my english 2 class or something like that. he stayed in college forever, and when he finally graduated, he suddenly got 5 or 6 degrees [20:39:15] <+Smirnov|work> AdamG talk to snackbeard about that [20:39:16] Give me a question and I'll give you an answer. [20:39:28] <+Smirnov|work> Gamer I've never evn seen you before :P [20:39:30] yeah... that'd be a good idea... [20:39:42] I've never seen you eather. [20:39:43] * Anon679 (JavaUser@THX-A1878043.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #USpirateparty [20:39:51] kinda the nature of the internet. [20:40:00] <@tommstein> he said an answer, not a good answer [20:40:17] * Anon679 (JavaUser@THX-A1878043.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Anon679) [20:40:18] * Gamer8585 plays rimshot [20:40:30] * tommstein plays bagpipes [20:40:42] kick who? It best not have been me. :) [20:40:55] <@nbx909> you know if antipiratbyran was good they would be the ninja party [20:40:57] <@nbx909> lol [20:41:14] <@nbx909> warp9pnt9, no that guy that said ninjas are better [20:41:16] anitpiratbyran???? [20:41:19] Except without the 1337. [20:41:22] ohh hehe [20:41:51] Thanks for not kicking me. I have enough boots up the ass as it is. [20:41:53] <@nbx909> Gamer8585, the antipirate-party in sweden [20:42:04] off topic, but anyone here live in chicago? [20:42:09] <@nbx909> warp9pnt9, what would i kick you for? [20:42:11] I did not know there was an antipirate party. [20:42:19] <@nbx909> yeah [20:42:23] <@tommstein> there's an antipirate party? what? [20:42:30] box|xp: I use to live in Champaign. :) [20:42:31] apperently. [20:42:32] <@nbx909> http://www.antipiratbyran.com/ [20:42:35] <@tommstein> what homos would possibly join that party? [20:42:38] nbx909: boredom, amusement, sadism, you know, the things ircops live for. :D [20:42:40] <@nbx909> RIAA? [20:42:46] that would be the anti-piracy beaureau [20:42:46] <+Smirnov|work> box|xp i live near chicago [20:42:48] not party [20:42:49] <+Smirnov|work> box|xp where do you live [20:42:59] <@nbx909> warp9pnt9, that would be abuse and abuse is bad [20:42:59] did they set it up as a joke? [20:43:04] <@nbx909> Gamer8585, no [20:43:05] <@nbx909> it's real [20:43:20] it's like the BSA or **AA's [20:43:26] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [20:43:28] except... swedish. [20:43:35] <@tommstein> those aren't parties [20:43:56] It is very real, their leader even took part in the Pirate Bay raid. [20:43:56] <+Smirnov|work> antipiratbyran is a joke :P [20:43:57] <@nbx909> well it's the RIAA party [20:43:57] <@nbx909> lol [20:43:59] So, its just an indrusty propaganda website? [20:44:02] If you have enough money you too can buy a party. :D [20:44:04] <+Smirnov|work> ep [20:44:08] antipiratbryan isn't a party either [20:44:08] <+Smirnov|work> its not a gov organization [20:44:14] <@nbx909> really? [20:44:19] <+Smirnov|work> There's a piratbyran too [20:44:20] <+Smirnov|work> hahahaha :P [20:44:28] <@nbx909> that's the pirate party [20:44:31] <@nbx909> lol [20:44:38] <+Smirnov|work> no that is piratpartiet [20:44:41] <@nbx909> oh [20:44:43] that's the pirate beaurau [20:44:47] <@nbx909> oh [20:44:50] piratpartiet=pirate party [20:44:53] What is the difference, again? [20:44:55] <@nbx909> idk swedish [20:45:04] piratbyran= pirate beureau [20:45:13] <@nbx909> what is the difference? [20:45:15] <@tommstein> bureau [20:45:16] Between bureau and party..in Sweden..? [20:45:22] pyratbyran would be more like the downhillbattle [20:45:37] Ohh [20:45:38] <@nbx909> what Erik said [20:45:38] elaborate. [20:46:16] pyratbyran is like a piracy... center. organization. They talk about piracy and have no issue with it [20:46:28] I suppose that the party gets people elected. [20:46:32] And the bureau informs? [20:46:37] pyratpartiet wants to legalize filesharing, but doesn't actually tell people how and why to do it [20:46:43] <@nbx909> okay [20:46:44] <@nbx909> like us [20:46:44] <@nbx909> lol [20:46:49] Oh, I see. [20:46:51] Ah, I see. [20:47:01] right, we're an american piratpartiet. [20:47:28] We are also an American piratbyran, though. [20:47:28] And Zeropaid is like an American Pyratbyran. [20:47:38] <+Smirnov|work> piratpartiet doesn't need to legalize file sharing, its already legal in Sweden [20:47:56] Erik: not exactly [20:47:58] <@tommstein> lucky bastards [20:48:04] the tech lis legal everywhere. [20:48:11] AFAIK. [20:48:12] downhillbattle.org would be a pyratbyran for americans [20:48:22] <@tommstein> not spain, i think [20:48:24] Alright. :P [20:48:47] O_o [20:48:58] <+Smirnov|work> No we're not, we're not pro-file sharing [20:49:07] Is this going to be on the final exam? [20:49:09] <+Smirnov|work> We do not support nor condone the unauthorized works redistribution [20:49:24] <@tommstein> but we're pro-not-suing-file-sharers? [20:49:26] warp9pnt9: along with the onions, yes. [20:49:28] But file sharing is just a way to use tech. [20:49:41] Its not nessacaraly bad. [20:49:50] Its all how people use it. Like guns. [20:50:01] <+Smirnov|work> File sharing is great [20:50:10] <+Smirnov|work> Unauthorized works redistribution is not [20:50:11] tommerstin: we're pro-it-shouldn't-be-legal-to-sue-file-sharers. or at least, that what I think [20:50:26] <@tommstein> AdamG, that's what i thought [20:50:29] * gwillen|work reappears after several days of idling [20:50:30] Hi all. [20:50:31] We're pro-copyright/patent reform. [20:50:32] <+Smirnov|work> That's why we want to make noncommercial redistribution legal [20:50:52] and protect people from goverment and Big Buisness. [20:50:53] well, I don't think the entire party agrees with that... I dunno though... [20:51:00] * Smirnov|work (~ryan@Smirnov.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: EchNET CGI:IRC (EOF)) [Smirnov|work Smirnov|away] [20:51:22] I was talking with someone last night (or rather early this morning) about that. [20:51:22] The captcha on the new forums claimed that 8+2 != 10, just fyi... it might need some debugging. (It let me in on the second try.) [20:51:30] <@tommstein> AdamG, if we have people that think the lawsuits should go on... i don't know about those people [20:51:43] gwillen: Base 9. [20:51:47] <@tommstein> hmm, who could it have been... [20:52:18] tommstein: of the 5 points listed in our stance on copyrights, that conflicts with only #4 [20:52:23] AdamG, that would substantially reduce the number of successful forum registrations, I'd think.... :-P [20:52:28] gwillen|work: That's to catch those damn autistic bots. [20:52:40] <@tommstein> AdamG, yep [20:53:26] What's the difference between noncommercial redistribution and unauthorized redistribution if an artist is starving and does not authorize your viewing, commercial or not? [20:53:37] This is a very very logically weak stance. [20:53:47] warp: the question is, _should_ authors have that control? [20:53:53] noncomercial means its not being used for profit. [20:53:57] YES, THEY created something [20:53:57] we say no, after copyright term is expired [20:54:02] so it's obviously not a "right" [20:54:09] Yeah sure, after a long long time... [20:54:21] Unathorized means they don't want it being distibuted by just anyone. [20:54:22] Warp: wrong party. We want it to be a much shorter time [20:54:32] but what about the intervening 14, 28, or however many years? [20:54:48] It used to be 14 years with one chance to renew. [20:54:52] within those years, we want to encourage creativity and the "progress of science and the useful arts" [20:54:55] Then things got f'ed up. [20:54:56] <@nbx909> there si a debate inm the forums about this [20:55:08] does restricting noncommercial redistribution do that? [20:55:31] So you'll encourage creativity by giving a blanket amnesty to anyone who misuses file sharing for unauthorized distribution? O_o [20:55:37] <@tommstein> AdamG, if people aren't buying things, probably [20:56:06] tommstein: But there's good evidence that people keep buying [20:56:20] warp9pnt9, who said anything about a blakent amnisty? [20:56:38] We want to reform the law not pardon criminals. [20:56:44] <@tommstein> although i think we need to make a distinction between "useful arts" (software, books, etc.) and "nonuseful arts" (music, movies, other things solely for entertainment). yes, the distinction is somewhat arbitrary, but that's life [20:56:49] Well how do you enforce this unless you have all P2P centrally run and monitored by government? [20:57:01] tommstein: too hard, we can't draw that distinction [20:57:14] we let the people enforce it. What are you a Communist? [20:57:17] warp: Exactly- you don't enforce restrictions on p2p [20:57:20] because youcan't [20:57:29] what AdamG said. ^ [20:57:32] Ok, so then it is blanket amnesty [20:57:37] no [20:57:43] call it whatever you want, we're not calling it that [20:57:46] tommstein: The original 'useful artists' were woodworkers, during the Victorian age. Cause they made beautiful stuff that was useful, you know, for living in. [20:57:53] <@tommstein> AdamG, why not? under different circumstances, people could say the same thing about distinguishing between copyrights and patents. declaring "book and software protected, music and movies no" isn't hard [20:57:57] don't matter what you call it if it is what I say it is [20:58:17] tommstein: it's a much more distinct line than you imply. There's lots of judicial precedent in this regard- the lines are pretty clear [20:58:27] but it isn't, warp :P [20:58:34] I think your a little confusied Warp. But I think I know what your tring to get at. [20:58:49] good god, don't pull out the confused argument [20:58:50] Its the public that defines actins. [20:58:58] that's the most annoying debate tactic ever [20:59:09] sorry. [20:59:22] <@tommstein> AdamG, of course there's precedent, since there currently is an actual distinction between copyrights and patents, but not between "useful arts" and "nonuseful arts" (using my definitions) [20:59:38] * Anon436 (~Anon436@THX-4F9340F7.ip.alltel.net) has joined #USpirateparty [20:59:44] So, you want to legalize p2p, not monitor or enforce anything, but say in words only that you don't condone unauthorized P2P, by displaying no integrity by not backing up the so-called respect for original content creator's authorization status. [20:59:53] tommstein: The SC doesn't use your definitions. Right now, the useful/nonuseful distinction basically is about what can and can't be copyrighted [21:00:12] This party is a fucking joke. [21:00:15] We are not trying to protect ciminals, mearly trying to protect peoples reasonable right to privacy. [21:00:15] warp: the non-condoning clause, we only have becaues it's still illegal [21:00:17] but we want to change that [21:00:17] <@nbx909> mmkay [21:00:27] <@nbx909> warp9pnt9, then leave... [21:00:41] Fuck off you wankers. :p [21:00:44] * warp9pnt9 (~Anon572@THX-2953E620.bstnma.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: warp9pnt9) [21:00:45] <@tommstein> AdamG, why would they? things aren't run the way we want currently [21:00:45] P2P is leagal. It's the unathorized trading of copyrighted works that isn't [21:00:53] <@nbx909> ... [21:01:05] tommstein: Our issue isn't with the courts [21:01:08] it's with congress [21:01:18] Gamer: how long will that be true :/ [21:01:27] <@tommstein> AdamG, the courts would have to use the terms used by congress if congress starts using new terms [21:01:49] Yeah, we have to focus our efforts on congress not the courts. [21:01:50] Dude, the judiciary interprets. They say that pretty much every art is useful- and I agree. [21:02:03] I don't agree. [21:02:05] that's not exactly a point of great contention [21:02:12] <@tommstein> a fart in the wind is probably useful, to somebody [21:02:17] <@tommstein> and considered art too [21:02:18] but you can't copyright that [21:02:27] _that_ is what the "useful arts" thing is about [21:02:27] If every art was useful, then why did it need to be specified in the constitution? [21:02:37] <@tommstein> what Erik said [21:02:39] Erik: so people couldn't copyright farts in the wind [21:02:45] yup. [21:02:54] <@tommstein> whose to say that they're not useful, if they actually are useful to someone [21:02:58] Useful arts are things like car designs, architecture, clothing. [21:03:09] Use is in the eye of the beholder. [21:03:12] They aren't paintings, they aren't music.. [21:03:24] Erik: SC says they are... and I would say they are too [21:03:30] <@tommstein> holy crap Erik, you either read my mind or what i typed above [21:04:04] Erik, fiction (for an example) has been copyrightable since before the US existed. Are you of the opinion that "useful arts" was meant to explicitly exclude things that have always been within the scope of common-law copyright? [21:04:17] it's a misunderstanding of the clause to think that congress has allowed to many copyrights. What they've allowed is to many restrictions on those copyrights [21:04:19] <@tommstein> AdamG, the supreme court says so because the law and/or constitution don't specifically say otherwise [21:04:29] I just don't feel like that's what they meant when they wrote it. [21:05:09] tommstein: look at the cases... they have very good, solid reasoning behind their useful/nonuseful lines [21:05:12] <@tommstein> i don't think he was saying that books shouldn't be copyrighted [21:05:31] The printing of books is a useful art, yes. [21:05:34] but tommstein, is fiction any more "useful" than, say, music or paintings? [21:05:38] <@tommstein> tell me how britney spears' latest single is useful [21:05:54] <+jsaxton86> It provides her with a living [21:05:55] Erik, you're telling me that romance novels are more "useful" than music CDs? [21:05:58] <+jsaxton86> ALong with her staff [21:06:02] hahaha, and that's about it [21:06:12] <@tommstein> gwillen|work, maybe, and it is certainly harder to distinguish between fiction and nonfiction than between books and nonbooks [21:06:28] <@tommstein> ok, useful to anyone but the profiter [21:06:31] I'm saying that the process of printing a book is what is considered a useful art, not the content. [21:06:40] <@tommstein> in that sense, the riaa's shenanigans are useful [21:06:48] sorry.. you guys are way off with this. Useful arts basically means, whatever can reasonably be copyrighted. [21:07:00] Erik: The content is considered useful art, under current case law [21:07:04] Erik, that doesn't make sense. It's the content that's subject to copyright. [21:07:10] AdamG: I'm not saying that it should be defined back to that, I'm saying that is the way it was originally defined. [21:07:25] <@tommstein> yes, we know that it can be currently copyrighted. we're talking about what should be copyrighted [21:07:34] right, but fortunately the courts have updated their original interpretation, erik [21:07:45] tommstein: words should be copyrightable. [21:07:53] Right, and we should find out what their reason was, instead of guessing. [21:07:58] <@tommstein> AdamG, just random words? [21:08:02] Let's try not to go down the path of the "right to bear automatic weapons" folks... if we try to promote atypical readings of the Constitution, we're going to marginalize ourselves [21:08:08] the decisions are there, erik, for everyone to read... [21:08:16] I think you're wrong about what it originally meant, but I don't think that matters much even if you're right. [21:08:23] tommstein: no. [21:08:31] works of any creative significance [21:08:35] basically, what we have today [21:08:36] Look: If they meant arts in general, then why did they say 'useful'? [21:08:54] so you couldn't copyright farts in the wind, to paraphrase tommstein [21:09:03] That's being specific, and I don't think that our forefathers, who spent a whole lot of time thinking of this stuff, were specific for no good reason. [21:09:04] I agree with AdamG. Any work of creative sigifigance. [21:09:06] <@tommstein> no one considers that to be an art of any kind [21:09:19] <@tommstein> what's significant? the latest boy band? [21:09:30] <@tommstein> that's a twisted definition of "significant" [21:09:38] tommstein: no it's not [21:09:39] <@tommstein> more like "frivolous" [21:09:46] Erik: I think it's honestly a red herring what they meant. If we go around promoting that view, we mark ourselves as crackpots. [21:09:49] the latest boy band does impact our culture, your norms notwithstanding [21:09:50] I think that it is more along the lines of works that may be expanded on. [21:09:54] that makes them significant [21:10:45] <@tommstein> ok, boy bands are important to the nation, we heard it here first [21:10:51] I think that desiding what can be copyrighted is a non-issue today. Its more the duration of copyright thats the problem. [21:11:33] <@tommstein> what about the fact that allowing all noncommercial allows open-source licenses like the gpl to be subverted? [21:11:49] <@tommstein> noncommercial redistribution^ [21:12:06] Again, a non-issue [21:12:12] * Anon634 (~Anon634@THX-294F4934.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #USpirateparty [21:12:12] yeah. [21:12:14] Yeah, that's not an issue in the least bit. [21:12:19] <@tommstein> nonissue? i see you're not interested in the open-source vote here [21:12:25] If anything, it would strengthen applications that are released under the GPL. [21:12:37] <14ninex> open-source ftw [21:12:40] how would it subvet GPL? [21:12:46] * Anon634 is now known as Charger [21:12:54] Companies wouldn't be able to claim any source code, so anything that is out there would just be out there. [21:13:01] * ScrollMaker (~ScrollMak@ScrollMaker.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [21:13:05] we may well lose FSF support because that provision wouldn't require freeware apps that incorporate GPL code to also be GPL [21:13:24] Erik:isn't that how open source works? [21:13:31] <@tommstein> because if you can redistribute copyrighted works noncommercially whether the author(s) want you to or not, you can redistribute gpl'd software without following the license [21:13:43] but no one would be able to make money from it without first making it GPL, reaching compliance with the GPL [21:13:46] Gamer8585: Yup, that's why it isn't a non-issue. Nothing significant would change. [21:13:52] *why it is [21:14:06] <@tommstein> ok, how would i make you distribute your changes to my source code? [21:14:11] yeah, I thought so. [21:14:15] <@tommstein> since i can't revoke your right to distribute the program? [21:14:20] tommstein: you woudln't, unless I began selling the software [21:14:28] in which case it would no longer be noncommercial [21:14:30] tommstein: The GPL can't make you do that. [21:14:37] Erik: i think it can [21:14:41] <@tommstein> what happens when microsoft makes a "free" linux available for download without sharing their changes? [21:14:47] If you sell it, it can. [21:14:53] <@tommstein> AdamG, and that is breaking the gpl [21:14:56] tommstein: MS can never charge for it, though [21:15:23] <@tommstein> AdamG, what matters is that they're breaking the gpl [21:15:24] tommstein: right, it would be. But it would also be breaking countless other EULAs on software boxes [21:15:28] that's to be expected [21:15:56] <@tommstein> AdamG, i'm not interested in that, i'm interested in the invalidation of open-source licenses for noncommercial purposes [21:16:02] huh? [21:16:09] oh [21:16:15] <14ninex> pirate president 2008 [21:16:30] I don't think you can invalidate a license. [21:16:36] right, but you could never reinstate them to be commercial without also reinstating the open-source licenses [21:17:16] be it GPL or MS EULAs. The law shouldn't draw a distinction- it should just plain allow noncommercial redistribuion [21:17:35] <@tommstein> but dude, who cares about that. open-source licenses aren't (supposed to be) applicable only if someone is selling your stuff, they're supposed to be applicable if someone is distributing your stuff, period [21:17:48] tommstein: yup, but is that right? [21:18:04] <@tommstein> AdamG, i don't know. are you saying that the gpl makes unreasonable demands? [21:18:06] should the original creator be able to make requirements of me if I distribute a modified copy of linux to my neighbor? [21:18:11] I don't see anything right in demanding that someone give you credit for what you did. [21:18:20] tommstein: the GPL does make some unreasonable demands [21:18:26] but that's another issue [21:18:33] I think that the GPL makes reasonable demands for an unreasonable society.. [21:18:46] <@tommstein> holy crap. there went the open-source support for the party down the drain [21:18:47] I second that. [21:18:48] Erik: the upstream-Source-code seems like a pain to me [21:19:05] tommstein: we seek no one's vote, or at least I hope we don't [21:19:26] we set out party principles first, and when people agree with us, they join us, or they don't and don't. [21:19:34] I thought we supported open-soruce software? [21:19:36] <@tommstein> hell, i'm an open source guy, and i don't know about this any more [21:19:55] Fine. But I [21:19:58] 'm saying... [21:20:06] I feel like we need a better way to decide on principles, or something..... [21:20:09] tommstein: What do you like about open source? [21:20:19] that it's faulty to say that copyright owners have control over the noncommercial distribution of their works [21:20:21] Is it the fact that you get to have your name added to something? [21:20:22] like, who decided that we would be in favor of all noncommerical copying be ok? [21:20:29] being* [21:20:35] <@tommstein> Erik, its magical aura? [21:20:36] gwillen: to be honest, I did [21:20:47] I just don't see that as being important. [21:20:48] gwillen: i wrote that into our copyright reform platform [21:20:52] * gwillen|work nods. [21:20:55] <@tommstein> gwillen|work, AdamG apparently [21:21:02] <@tommstein> damn, i was right [21:21:03] it everyone else want to take it out, then I guess the powers that be will [21:21:09] So possibly we need a formal way to debate these things, or something. [21:21:12] *if [21:21:12] <14ninex> create a poll on the site. [21:21:21] The fourm would be good for that. [21:21:27] I don't think a poll is a good idea [21:21:35] <14ninex> just a thought [21:21:43] and I want to guide us away from FLOSS fears [21:21:52] FLOSS? [21:21:55] <14ninex> yeah i hate flossing too [21:22:03] our reforms would cause problems for _all_ copyright licenses... [21:22:10] Free/Libre/Open Source Software. [21:22:16] <14ninex> oh that floss [21:22:16] oh [21:22:20] the GPL is designed to work within the framework of our current (broken) copyright system [21:22:45] well, I'm sure the GPL can be ajusted for changes in the law. [21:22:51] if/when we fix that system, it's no suprise that open-source licenses won't fit so well anymore [21:22:52] * Anon436 (~Anon436@THX-4F9340F7.ip.alltel.net) Quit (Quit: Anon436) [21:22:54] <14ninex> simply rewrite the GPL :P [21:22:56] I don't know that a poll would be a good idea, but I'm not certain that legalizing all noncommercial distribution is a good idea either. Are we sure that limiting the length of copyright doesn't go far enough? [21:23:16] gwillen: my personal beleif is that that doesn't go far enough [21:23:24] <@tommstein> how are you going to rewrite the gpl when the law says that you have a certain right? [21:23:46] <@tommstein> the gpl already says what it needs to say, this party just wants to invalidate some of it apparently [21:23:53] I agree that we don't want to pander to particular groups (e.g. open source advocates) to get votes, but I don't think we should go further than the mass of the party is comfortable with, either, and I really feel like that might be going too far. [21:24:06] Why would we need the GPL if we allow for any noncommercial distribution? [21:24:25] * Anon411 (~Anon411@THX-D89F8F94.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #USpirateparty [21:24:27] The GPL is there to create a free, public domain product if the author wants it to be that way. [21:24:27] <@tommstein> the gpl isn't there to allow noncommercial distribution [21:24:29] tommstein: yes, the requirement for source code changes to be distributed would no longer be valid, as long as the binaries incorporating those changes are only distributed noncommercially [21:24:33] I agree with gwillen [21:24:34] Argh! [21:24:34] Possibly something like this would be a good tool to decide on policies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliberative_democracy -- except it's really only ever been done in person, not over the internet. [21:24:35] <@tommstein> it sets forth specific terms [21:24:52] <@tommstein> AdamG, exactly. that's the problem verbatim [21:24:53] Anon, technical difficulties? [21:24:55] <@nbx909> Welcome to #USpirateparty Anon411 [21:25:03] tommstein: I don't deny it... [21:25:10] What's the topic [21:25:19] <@nbx909> GPL and copyright reform [21:25:27] <@nbx909> as it seems [21:25:33] <@tommstein> invalidating open-source licenses [21:25:38] tommstein: That's harsh [21:25:41] <@tommstein> for all but commercial redistribution [21:25:47] <@tommstein> but accurate [21:25:51] it'd invalidate, again, nearly all current licenses [21:26:07] to say it invalidates open-source licenses implies we're singling those out or something [21:26:07] Anon411, the main argument currently seems to be whether it's reasonable to legalize all noncommercial distribution of copyrighted works. [21:26:09] Ok, how about a compromise? What about replacing copyrights with copylefts? [21:26:15] if the law changes contracts will have to reflect that. [21:26:20] <14ninex> lol Erik [21:26:22] Erik: Already in there [21:26:40] Instead of forcing everyone to not distribute something, allow them to redistribute under certain conditions. [21:26:41] Oh, speaking of replacing copyrights with copylefts. The idea of enshrining copyleft in law (which I saw on our policies page) bothers me... what does that even mean? [21:27:04] gwillen: I put that in because of SCOgroup's (now dropped) claim that the GPL was invalid [21:27:34] it's kind of a minor issue- but we should make it clear that copyrights do not soley exist for a profit motive [21:27:39] AdamG, fair enough. But I don't think it's appropriate at all to single out particular licenses in copyright law... I'm not sure what more generally you could put in to have the same effect. [21:27:44] * tina runs and hides -[ I am hiding after ignoring you all for 90 minutes. ]- at 09:27p -[ P:On / L:On ]- [21:27:44] * tina is now known as awayies [21:27:51] <14ninex> distributing something but not selling it? [21:27:56] gwillen: it doesn't single out the GPL [21:28:04] I don't really think it needs to be made clear... no court has ever held against the GPL, and I don't think they ever will. [21:28:14] I agree [21:28:19] <14ninex> gwillen|work: you sure about that? [21:28:19] * sabrebutt (~cal@THX-F250675A.cable.mindspring.com) has left #USpirateparty [21:28:35] <7gwillen|work> ninex, not totally... do you have a counterexample? [21:28:39] Hey just a fun article people might wanna take a look at: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-07/05/content_633395.htm [21:28:42] They realy can't since the licence holds the legal wieght of a contract. [21:29:04] I believe that the GPL is far more seen as word of mouth type of license, more like trust than anything else [21:29:26] <14ninex> http://library.findlaw.com/2003/Jun/16/132811.html [21:29:37] <14ninex> :) [21:29:52] *reads* [21:29:58] <7gwillen|work> [thanks ninex.] [21:30:23] <14ninex> http://news.com.com/2100-7344-5198117.html [21:30:52] I'm surprised [21:30:55] <@tommstein> let me ask this: was the invalidation of open-source licenses intended, or an unhappy side-effect of legalizing all noncommercial distribution? [21:31:05] Maybe I had not been around to read that, I never knew of such things happening [21:31:09] <7AdamG> these are gold, ninex, thanks [21:31:13] <14ninex> np [21:31:27] tommstein: Side effect. I'm a FLOSS advocate myself [21:31:37] * Anon411 (~Anon411@THX-D89F8F94.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Quit: Anon411) [21:31:42] <7gwillen|work> ninex... neither link has a ruling against the GPL, the second one appears to have a ruling in its favor... [21:31:56] but I beleive more in the idea that a copyright owner does not have the "right" to control what happens to his works except so far as the law gives him hat privilidge [21:32:05] <14ninex> they are just cases where the GPL has been brought to court [21:32:11] <@tommstein> AdamG, couldn't the wording be tweaked to mean exactly what we mean then? [21:32:21] I think we should just focus on the duration of copyright for now. Leave more heavy reforms for later. [21:32:24] do you have a suggestion? [21:32:33] <7gwillen|work> ninex, ahh, I think you misunderstood me... my intended meaning was that no court had ever _invalidated_ the GPL. Not that they had never looked at it. [21:32:40] <14ninex> ah [21:32:43] <14ninex> http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/239997.htm [21:33:06] [do you have these all bookmarked, or something? :-)] [21:33:07] <@tommstein> AdamG, probably, but it would have to work off of whatever terminology was used to put point 3 into law [21:33:09] and I beleive that the government should only give them the exclusive rights to commercial redistribution [21:33:17] <14ninex> gwillen|work: yeah lol [21:33:32] <14ninex> well, not bookmarked, cached :P [21:33:35] ahh, heh. [21:33:57] But wouldn't that run the risk of people not developing for free? [21:34:10] <14ninex> people are always willing to develop for free [21:34:28] wait... did someone already take out one of the points... [21:34:29] Anyway, I agree with Gamer8585.... I don't think we should push too hard this early, _and_ I further question that what you're advocating is even a good idea at all. [21:34:34] <@tommstein> it also matters that people can play word games with the definition of "noncommercial." for instance, "you're paying for the physical router hardware, the software is a free bonus" [21:34:34] <14ninex> or maybe thats just me [21:35:03] uhhhhhh. Did the website just _EXPLODE_ for anyone else? [21:35:06] hmm... bout the retroactively application of copyrights, it seems. [21:35:17] working for me, gwillen [21:35:25] <@tommstein> yep, website broken [21:35:25] someone mentioned somethig similar on the digg comments... [21:35:38] <14ninex> i sold a dvd disc earlier this summer that just so happened to have V For Vendetta burned on it [21:35:50] <7@tommstein> ninex, exactly [21:35:55] works for me [21:36:06] <@tommstein> are you sure you're not getting cached versions? [21:36:12] it's broken in firefox 1.0 on linux as of about 30 seconds ago. [21:36:20] <@tommstein> konqueror 3.5.2 here [21:36:27] <@tommstein> in linux, somewhat obviously [21:36:28] <+jsaxton86> I'm going to restart apache [21:36:36] <14ninex> works here [21:37:09] whoa [21:37:21] <14ninex> what? [21:37:30] yeah, 'twas cached... broken in epiphany too [21:37:32] Ok guys I have to log off for now. See you later, and I hope you work this out. [21:37:43] later [21:37:43] * Gamer8585 (JavaUser@Gamer8585.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Gamer8585) [21:37:44] Someone should post this on the forum.. [21:37:54] the old forum, I assume :P [21:37:56] <14ninex> heh, just post the logs [21:38:12] That way people can read and think about it a little bit. [21:38:16] <@tommstein> i've actually been copying the logs. this could be important [21:38:17] <+jsaxton86> shit [21:38:38] <7jake> ninex][xenin [21:38:43] Anyway, can we agree on some abstract stuff, at least? [21:38:47] <@tommstein> jsaxton86, server explode? [21:38:50] * gwillen|work logs anytime gwillen|work is present in here. (gwillen, my home account, does not at the moment.) [21:38:51] <+jsaxton86> looks like it [21:38:57] <+jsaxton86> our test vhost is up [21:39:02] <+jsaxton86> so it's not an apache problem [21:39:03] "life plus 70 is too long" [21:39:09] <+jsaxton86> I'm going to see what I can do [21:39:22] <@tommstein> AdamG, yeah, stuff like that is pretty universally accepted (around here) [21:39:32] <@tommstein> jsaxton86, welcome to the digg effect, i assume [21:39:40] <+jsaxton86> yeah, it's fucking slow [21:39:42] <14ninex> tommstein: if you want, i could automatically archive the irc logs and have the uploaded [21:39:47] <14ninex> them uploaded* [21:39:48] <+jsaxton86> but it shouldn't be down [21:40:02] Can we agree that copyrights are overall restrictive to the rights of everyone except the author? [21:40:04] <7@tommstein> ninex, that would be even easier, instead of me copying and pasting [21:40:09] * boxgamex (~boxgamex@boxgamex.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Client exited) [21:40:13] Erik: not even that :/ [21:40:21] <@tommstein> Erik, yes, although that's the point of them [21:40:32] <@tommstein> no? [21:40:34] oh, well... I see what you mean [21:40:49] I don't think we should restrict a user's rights in certain regards (noncommercial) [21:40:51] Erik, I think that's the idea behind copyrights, yes... [21:40:55] Well, the question is whether or not that restriction is justified, or not.. [21:40:58] but other ways (commercial), yes [21:41:10] <14ninex> oh here we go [21:41:19] no, we goeth not :) [21:41:28] <@tommstein> Erik, if you want people to continue writing and such, there's definitely some justified restrictions [21:41:41] As far as I see it, there are alternative methods to compensate that don't restrict on anyone's rights. [21:41:54] <14ninex> i had an idea for a patent today that i might be able to sell to a corporation. how would the philosophies of the pirate party effect that process? [21:42:10] <@tommstein> Erik, do tell. and hopefully this method doesn't invalidate open-source licenses [21:42:16] <7AdamG> ninex: so far, we have no stance on patents [21:42:19] <+jsaxton86> I put up a page for the time being until I can figure out WTF is wrong [21:42:24] <14ninex> ah [21:42:41] tommstein: I don't think Erik was actually going to spell out those methods this instant...? [21:42:44] Well, I just think that such non-restrictive methods should take priority over restrictive methods. [21:42:54] just establishing that those methods exist [21:43:00] <@tommstein> AdamG, maybe not. just wondering if he had any on the top of his head [21:43:04] I do. [21:43:11] <@tommstein> woo hoo [21:43:23] I've been thinking of some things for a while, posted some on the board, never got much good feedback on them. [21:43:24] jsaxton86, your temporary page just became a 403.... [21:43:45] * awayies is now known as tina [21:43:45] * tina sneaks back from hiding -[ I am hiding after ignoring you all for 90 minutes. ]- gone 16 min 1 s [21:44:03] <@nbx909> ... [21:44:05] Now, I'm of the opinion that if congress believes that technology should be promoted, it should pay for it. [21:44:17] (and useful arts, or arts in general) [21:44:19] <@nbx909> Forbidden [21:44:20] <@nbx909> You don't have permission to access / on this server. [21:44:21] <@nbx909> wee [21:44:22] ok... [21:45:02] <+K`Tetch> I go away for 90 mins, and so whats been decided? [21:45:12] <+K`Tetch> that people on irc can't decide on anything? [21:45:17] nbx909, the server jus blew up, we don't know why, jsaxton86 is working on it. [21:45:19] <@tommstein> K`Tetch, not even that much [21:45:33] <@nbx909> gwillen|work, really? cool take pictures [21:45:34] <@nbx909> lol [21:45:42] The money would be coming from taxes, which would be coming from the rich, which would be the people who benefit most from the progress of science. Seems fair to me. [21:45:49] <14ninex> heh [21:46:01] <7@tommstein> dang ninex, that's the whole day? [21:46:02] Erik, let's not drag too much socialism into this... [21:46:14] <14ninex> 199k? [21:46:43] ok. [21:46:44] It wouldn't be socialism..it would be government sponsored progress. [21:46:59] Except instead of the government forcing us to pay for it, the government would.. [21:47:09] <@tommstein> Erik, it's not just the rich that pay taxes. we'd all get a raise [21:47:11] There are lots of issues one could raise- the vast majority of which are superficial [21:47:27] but they _will_ be raised, superficial or not [21:47:28] <@tommstein> the government has to get money from somewhere [21:47:30] Erik, it behooves us to avoid putting things into our platform that would polarize people who might otherwise support us... [21:47:49] Well, what else are we saying? [21:47:57] Reduce copyright length? [21:47:57] gwillen: I'm not sure about Erik's proposal, but we shouldn't base our decisions on relative popularity [21:48:05] pretty much... [21:48:07] <@tommstein> Erik, that still doesn't explain how open-source licenses wouldn't be invalidated [21:48:09] Why? [21:48:10] <+Smirnov|away> can anyone tel me around when the site went down [21:48:15] * Smirnov|away is now known as Smirnov [21:48:16] not long ago [21:48:21] <@nbx909> http://www.ramdac.org/images/anncoulter1.jpg [21:48:28] <@nbx909> haha [21:48:40] a digg comment mentions it 19 minutes ago [21:49:03] tommstein: Just because open source licenses would be invalidated doesn't mean that the methodology behind FS would be invalidated.. [21:49:03] <+Smirnov> Neer mind it works [21:49:07] wasn't it supposed to be not dugg? [21:49:16] <+Smirnov> no we released an official story after it kept leaking [21:49:26] <+Smirnov> hopefully we hit /. tomorrow ? [21:49:28] <+Smirnov> someone posted us there right? [21:49:29] Do you honestly think that in a society with free distribution that sourceforge would just give up, shut down? [21:49:34] <@tommstein> "Just because open source licenses would be invalidated". you say that like it's some kind of trivial thing [21:49:43] Smirnov, it was only completely off for about 10 mins, but to me it still looks garbled (firefox 1.0 on linux) [21:49:46] why would sourceforge shut down ..? [21:49:47] The guys working on Ubuntu would just say, up, we don't have GPL, better not make anything. [21:49:49] tommstein: it's not tivial, but it's not unexpected either [21:49:55] gwillen|work: have you tried firefox 1.5 [21:50:07] Smirnov, no, I'm at work. [21:50:36] The thing is that yes, the license would be invalidated, but there is no reason why anyone who write open source software would stop doing it. [21:50:47] <@tommstein> oh my goodness, such good understanding i'm getting here for why people prefer the gpl and such over public domain [21:51:02] Erik, but they might strongly oppose us, and they're likely to make up most of our base otherwise. [21:51:12] erik has a good point. The semantics of the GPL would be disturbed, but not the underlying beleifs in freedom of software [21:51:14] * Anon974 (~Anon974@THX-A9AB318.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #USpirateparty [21:51:22] hey [21:51:27] Welcome, Anon. [21:51:28] * Anon974 (~Anon974@THX-A9AB318.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: Anon974) [21:51:34] <@tommstein> he was a spy [21:51:40] it was fun while it lasted... [21:51:44] <@tommstein> a bad one [21:51:58] I agree we shouldn't be pandering to particular groups, but I really feel like we don't want to totally alienate the people most likely to support our cause, either. [21:52:01] Well, maybe we should ask those people what they think. Before you lump them in against us. [21:52:16] If you want some official stuff to happen dont forget to discuss it in the forums [21:52:27] <@tommstein> i'm pretty sure open-source people are going to support open-source licenses. just a guess at this point [21:52:29] [Also to reiterate, sorry if this is getting old, I don't think legalized noncommercial distribution is a good idea regardless of what it does to our public support.] [21:52:33] ...which are down at the moment, I presume? [21:52:37] brb. [21:52:45] tommstein: I'm an open source person, and I support free software. [21:52:46] <+K`Tetch> i think its really an issue only for thers of the party [21:53:06] tommstein: I think many FLOSS adovates would have no issue with the noncommercial distrib clause [21:53:14] <+K`Tetch> the members of the party [21:53:22] <+K`Tetch> the actual membee changed [21:53:30] <+K`Tetch> the actual members [21:53:33] <+K`Tetch> later it can be changed [21:53:38] <+K`Tetch> 9damned windows stealing focus) [21:53:58] <@tommstein> AdamG, with people selling hardware and providing the software for free? with microsoft selling cds for $300 with free copies of linux on them? [21:54:04] I don't know..I guess I just don't see why you are all up in arms about the difference between public domain and GPL. [21:54:35] <@tommstein> Erik, because one requires that if you make any improvements to my software, you have to share them, and the other doesn't [21:54:49] <@tommstein> that's the whole point of the gpl as opposed to just releasing all software into the public domain [21:55:17] tommstein: the $300 linux idea is just dead wrong [21:55:23] First of all [21:55:38] Any given day, MS can take Linux and sell it for $300. [21:55:44] How would you not share something that is free? [21:55:50] it's what red hat does, it's what suse does [21:55:59] <@tommstein> AdamG, and they'd have to share all source code [21:56:05] tommstein: right [21:56:33] now you're nightmare scenario is MS changes Linux ("extends", shall we say) and tries to sell those without the source code [21:56:49] <@tommstein> something like that [21:56:50] if they wanted to sell them, they would have to comply with the GPL and release their changes [21:56:56] Yeah, I can see that being a bad situation. [21:56:58] if they wanted to not comply with the GPL, they could never sell them [21:57:10] <@tommstein> no, they'd sell $300 cds, or access codes to their website, or any other number of things [21:57:22] tommstein: _they_can't_do_that [21:57:27] because of the noncommercial qualifier [21:57:27] <@tommstein> AdamG, why not? [21:57:33] AdamG, the point (which I find legally dubious, but) is that they could use a loophole of some kind to make money for distributing it, but without "selling" it. [21:57:46] I don't honestly think that loophole is really there, though... [21:57:50] gwillen: that's something to be written into law and worked out in court [21:57:53] <@tommstein> oh lordy [21:58:04] <@nbx909> the $300 cd-r that happens to contain linux on it [21:58:04] <@nbx909> lol [21:58:04] but it's certainly NOT an invalidation of that argument [21:58:19] <@tommstein> yes, what nbx909 said [21:58:22] but I see this as a greater issue than FLOSS v proprietary argument [21:58:28] My argument is: [21:58:34] [yay! The website unexploded.] [21:58:42] the author of a copyrighted work only has those priviledges assigned to him by law [21:58:53] the law should not assign the author control over noncommercial redistribution [21:58:57] <@tommstein> looky there, we have a website again [21:59:00] <@Echelon> o.o? [21:59:07] <@Echelon> was the site dugg? [21:59:13] that's really the simplest way to put it [21:59:19] <+Smirnov> yes [21:59:33] <@tommstein> so you're saying the law should not allow open-source licenses for anything but commercial distribution? [21:59:33] <+Smirnov> i leave to go home and oursite goes down lol [21:59:36] in regard to noncommercial distribution, the right of the user should supercede the rights of the author [21:59:39] <+Smirnov> why did it have to happen when i was going home :( [21:59:44] tommstein: open source, or any other license [21:59:52] <+Smirnov> wait what is this open source arguing shit that i missed [21:59:53] <@Echelon> figures [21:59:56] <@Echelon> cuntwads cant fucking listen [22:00:02] <@Echelon> so they have to do what we specifically asked them not to. [22:00:06] Smirnov... we'll post the logs at some pont [22:00:23] <+Smirnov> i have them [22:00:29] <+Smirnov> what time central should i look at [22:00:38] the last 2 hours? :P [22:00:45] <@tommstein> Smirnov, basically, how allowing all noncommercial distribution would invalidate open-source licenses (and all others, although we're mainly concerned about open-souce ones right now) [22:00:53] Echelon... I'm thinking that people we'd like to join our party might be in here, and digging us... [22:01:01] possibly calling them cuntwads isn't very productive? :-) [22:01:21] smirnov: and I say that the rights of noncommercial distribution for the user should supercede the right of control for the author. [22:01:26] <+Smirnov> Why would that invalidate them all? Most licenses I know of don't restrict noncommercial distribution [22:01:46] Smirnov: but they require changes to source code to be published [22:01:51] <+Smirnov> so? [22:01:52] or at least, as soon as they are distributed they require that [22:01:57] <+Smirnov> soooo? [22:02:01] <@tommstein> Smirnov, read the logs. it's about how the gpl demands that you share code modifications, but this wouldn't allow you to make that demand [22:02:32] <@tommstein> and other licenses stating their various terms [22:02:33] by allowing noncommercial redistribution, we would be making modified GPL code distributable without also distributing source code [22:02:37] <+Smirnov> i read our copyright platform too, i didnt see anything about that [22:02:37] Smirnov, the GPL does restrict noncommercial distribution. It says that if you noncommercialy distribute, you still have to share the sourc.e [22:02:40] <@tommstein> credit in the bsd license, for example [22:02:55] <@tommstein> what AdamG said [22:03:15] <+Smirnov> umm what [22:03:16] Smirnov: "Third, we wish to cease the criminalization of noncommercial works distribution." [22:03:23] <+Smirnov> how does that transate into what AdamG just said [22:03:30] right... but I'm saying the user's rights to noncommercial distribution has precedence over the rights of the authors, including those who choose a GPL licence [22:03:32] <@tommstein> third? was the order changed or something? [22:03:40] tommstein: yeah, I htink [22:03:54] someone took out #2, as a debate is still ongoing, I beleive [22:04:09] <@tommstein> holy crap, there's a net neutrality plank now too [22:04:20] <@tommstein> what was the second one? [22:04:33] about retroactively applying the shortened copyright term to previous works [22:04:36] <@tommstein> oh [22:04:42] <@tommstein> does this qualify as debate? [22:04:43] <+Smirnov> if someone can tell me how the platform translates into the GPL not being as valid, please tell me [22:05:18] Smirnov: it would legalize noncommercial distribution of modified GPL programs without disclosing the modifications of the code [22:05:25] <@tommstein> Smirnov, read the logs [22:05:26] <+Smirnov> how would it do that? [22:05:33] <+Smirnov> i'm fixing the site here [22:05:35] <+Smirnov> so just tell me ;) [22:05:45] Because it legalized _all_ noncommercial distribution [22:05:56] and the GPL doesn't... [22:06:01] Smirnov: They are basically arguing that in a Free society, Free licenses can't be enforced..from what I can understand of it. [22:06:17] the GPL requires that when you distribute a modified copy, you also distribute the modified source code [22:06:34] whereas this change would allow people to just distribute the modified binaries (but only noncommercially) [22:06:34] <@tommstein> Smirnov, because the gpl requires that you distribute source code changes, or you can't distribute the software. the noncommercial thing, however, would let you distribute gpl'd software noncommercially while ignoring the terms [22:06:48] if they wanted to begin selling their modified copies, they would again have to comply with the GPL [22:06:56] That's a specific of the license, though.. [22:07:05] <+Smirnov> umm [22:07:13] <+Smirnov> I didn't see anywhere that we said we can ignore copyleft licenses [22:07:46] <+Smirnov> so I guess I would like to know which exact sentence implies that [22:07:56] <@tommstein> Smirnov, if you can always do noncommercial distribution whether the author(s) want you to or not, then that means you can ignore the terms that author wants you to follow [22:07:57] sentence of our platform, or of the GPL? [22:08:14] Smirnov: Tommstein's comment is right on [22:08:21] <+Smirnov> ok [22:08:27] <@tommstein> the author couldn't stop you from distributing the software noncommercially no matter what [22:08:30] I'm saying that the user should be able to legally ignore what the author wants so long as it's noncommercial [22:08:41] But if you ignore the terms, you won't be successful. [22:08:44] tommstein says the author should have control over distribution be it commercial or non [22:08:57] <+Smirnov> I see [22:09:00] If you don't distribute that source code, then what use are you to the rest of the society? [22:09:04] <@tommstein> although i've only mentioned open-source licenses [22:09:17] Who wants a closed source operating system? I sure don't. [22:09:20] and my reason for my stance is I beleive supporting the rights of the user over the rights of the author will promote the progress of science and the useful arts... [22:09:32] <@tommstein> Erik, you're a pimple on society's ass. that doesn't mean that people aren't happy to be such, however [22:09:53] <@tommstein> Erik, not you specifically. that was an answer to your question [22:09:58] <@tommstein> Erik, that read wrong [22:10:04] lol... I thought that seemed odd :) [22:10:07] That's fine. :P [22:10:11] <+Smirnov> hm [22:10:25] <@tommstein> yeah, i took one look at that, and said "oh scheisse" [22:10:53] <+Smirnov> you know what [22:10:53] I don't know, if Microsoft couldn't sell its operating system for much more than free, then what advantage would they have in keeping the source closed? [22:11:04] <+Smirnov> A binary executable can't be copyrighted, can it? [22:11:15] Erik: I don't see it as a matter of advantages [22:11:22] <@tommstein> but what we agree on here is that the noncommercial thing would invalidate open-source licenses in all but commercial settings [22:11:26] I consider it amatter of user's vs. author's rights [22:11:39] tommstein: again, that's glossing over a lot [22:11:44] Well, I think that the argument here is that some people could take advantage of other people's work in a completely Free society..I don't think that's the case, though. [22:11:59] like that it would invlaidate most licenses, FLOSS or not [22:12:02] <+Smirnov> interesting [22:12:04] <@tommstein> AdamG, i glossed over the points that i don't care about right now, like closed-source stuff [22:12:16] <+Smirnov> I don't think we should invalidate all OSI licenses [22:12:17] <@tommstein> but we all agree on the effect that the noncommercial thing would have [22:12:20] <+Smirnov> So someone better come up with a fix [22:12:46] Smirnov... the simplest thing is to take that off the platform. But I don't think that would be right. [22:12:57] Yeah, I agree that it would allow companies to take open source software and release closed source binaries.. [22:13:04] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [22:13:05] * PirateBot sets mode: +ao TheWizrd TheWizrd [22:13:20] hey TheWizrd. [22:13:29] Erik: right... the question is, "does that supress progress of science and useful arts" [22:13:32] I hold no... [22:13:33] I just don't see any motive for doing that.. [22:13:51] <+Smirnov> yes it does [22:13:56] <+Smirnov> closing the source does [22:14:01] <@tommstein> Erik, for keeping your changes to yourself? [22:14:21] Smirnov: _nothing_ our party does will get rid of closed source code, and rightly so [22:14:26] Closing the source and keeping the copyright makes sense, closing the source and not having any copyright doesn't make sense. [22:14:33] we're not the FSF- we don't exist to promote software freedom [22:14:53] If they sold it for $300 a cd, then someone could just burn it or put it on the web and it would be free for everyone else. [22:14:55] <+Smirnov> AdamG, thats great, and we shouldnt invalidate OSI licenses either [22:14:55] <@tommstein> AdamG, but surely you appreciate the value of supporters [22:14:56] and certainly not through legislation [22:15:10] Smirnov: That's a gross oversimplification [22:15:18] <+Smirnov> Is copyleft different from copyright legally? [22:15:30] tommstein: Sure, but I also value advocacy [22:15:43] As I have it in the platform, or what? [22:15:59] <@tommstein> AdamG, the advocacy of who, if many, many people who support pretty much everything else are saying that this point stinks to high heaven? [22:16:30] I beleive that it's worth it to have a party that doesn't just agree with people, but changes peoples' minds. [22:17:08] <@tommstein> but when we're talking about your base, it should agree with them. otherwise, who's deciding what a party believes? [22:17:24] <@tommstein> one dude that everyone has to agree with? [22:17:28] ... I don't know how this works. I don't think anyone does [22:17:33] <@tommstein> in the extreme case [22:17:33] I'm telling you what I think [22:17:43] That sounds like a dictatorship, [22:17:50] <+Smirnov> How about legally differentiating copyleft from copyright [22:17:52] I think that users' rights come first, then author's prividgee [22:17:54] <@tommstein> yes, but what you think has become the official party platform (on this subject) [22:17:59] <@nbx909> yeah we need a conference with a leadership election [22:18:29] tommstein: right, because I volunteered to write it and the guidance was "go for it" [22:18:33] <+Smirnov> When it comes to source code, the companies can all suck it [22:18:34] if I'm requested to change it, I will [22:18:39] <@tommstein> AdamG, and now you're getting feedback [22:18:41] <+Smirnov> PEOPLE's rights yes, COMPANY's rights no [22:18:49] right. [22:18:55] I am... but I'm also advocating [22:19:18] <@tommstein> see, but when you fall back on "advocating" you're falling back on telling everyone else how it's going to be [22:19:37] tommstein: don't try that argument [22:19:46] <@tommstein> why? is it incorrect? [22:19:58] yes, because I've never said that, but you will make the case that I have [22:20:06] and the way human nature works, most people will beleive you [22:20:15] sucks, huh? so, do me a favor, and just don't do that [22:20:16] <@tommstein> i'm not sure what you're talking about [22:20:32] look at Charger's comment a little above [22:20:57] <@tommstein> but i'm just saying, if you're going to have the platform say one thing contrary to what people are saying, because you're "advocating," then you're just telling people how it's going to be. i'm not trying to pick on you or anything [22:21:11] tommstein: when I wrote it, no one was saying anything [22:21:25] <@tommstein> they are now [22:21:30] you are now [22:21:31] <@tommstein> that it is public [22:21:36] <@tommstein> Smirnov agreed [22:21:43] <@tommstein> i'm pretty sure someone else was agreeing above and left [22:21:50] <@tommstein> or stopped talking [22:21:54] Charger had a brief comment [22:21:58] People, since we are all in this chat room I gather we're all on the same side? We need to work things out not bicker between each other. [22:21:59] <+Smirnov> ok just post this on the forum [22:21:59] <+K`Tetch> theres something to remember as well - any politcy, platform or position has to be at balance and in harmony with the rest of the worl - thers no tech-utopian dream theory crap [22:22:00] <@tommstein> no, before that [22:22:20] <+Smirnov> I'm just a little uptight cause our site went down recently :P [22:22:36] <@nbx909> yay! it's back up [22:22:53] well, whatever you did Smirnov, good job [22:23:06] * Charger applaus Smirnov. [22:23:16] <+Smirnov> Well its more like snackbeard undoing the gz :P [22:23:22] <@tommstein> but i'm pretty sure that if it is made explicit that open-source license would be invalid in all but commericial settings, you'd get a lot more protest, in the form of would-be members seeing it, saying "fuck that," and leaving the party page [22:23:23] <+K`Tetch> got to think of realism, and practicality above all else [22:23:46] tommstein: It would be instinctive protest [22:23:49] <@tommstein> as it is now, that point may escape people who don't think about what the plank really means [22:24:04] * PirateBot sets mode: -o tommstein [22:24:06] I don't think most FLOSS advocates would disagree, once they see my reasoning behind it [22:25:05] you had ops? [22:25:10] <@Echelon> tommstein, rejoin in a sec [22:25:18] <@Echelon> register your nick first [22:25:18] <+Smirnov> well [22:25:21] <+Smirnov> chalk up another copyright problem [22:25:23] <+K`Tetch> great, now try and explain it to someone who has read what has been considered to be an extremist, unrealistic, or tech-utopian ideal at odds with world balance, and has left the page before the 'explinations [22:25:23] fuck [22:25:24] <@Echelon> o.o [22:25:24] <+Smirnov> first the ex post facto and now this [22:25:29] <@Echelon> tina, okay. [22:25:30] I'm tired [22:25:33] <@Echelon> name the time and place [22:25:34] <@Echelon> ;D [22:25:39] Umm [22:25:44] <@Echelon> tommstein, register your nickname please. [22:26:20] tomorrow, 2pm eiffle tower. [22:26:25] <+Smirnov> ? [22:26:26] Well in any case, open source software really has helped out our world, a whole lot more than closed software in my opinion..we probably should just shrug it off as insignificant.. [22:26:52] *shouldn't [22:26:55] <+Smirnov> Ok everyone relax, most of us here are pro-open source [22:27:16] tina: ?? [22:27:17] <+Smirnov> But we have to figure out a way to decriminalize file sharing without killilng off OSS licenses [22:27:19] * nbx909 points to his os [22:27:30] Ok, I'll agree with that Smirnov.. [22:27:34] Smirnov: That's at issue... [22:28:06] <+Smirnov> So someone needs to figure it out real quick [22:28:09] <+K`Tetch> I'm neither pro or con open source - Its upto the author to determin the type of license [22:28:20] <+Smirnov> yeah exactly [22:28:36] K^Tetch: That's pretty pro-open source, actually. Anti-open source people don't want authors to have that choice [22:28:36] <+K`Tetch> or whoever he wants [22:28:46] <+Smirnov> Maybe instead of noncommercial we should say noncorporate and noncommercial ? [22:29:00] Smirnov: how would that work? [22:29:08] <+Smirnov> an individual could do it but not a company? [22:29:13] <+K`Tetch> persoanlly, I don't care if somethings open or closed source, I pick whatevers the best for the job, and fits my budget [22:29:29] <+Smirnov> I don't think the FLOSS guys really care if you redistribute your program as an individual [22:29:33] <+Smirnov> or something. [22:29:39] Maybe instead of noncommercial we should just say that by default everything created comes with a GPL-like license. :) [22:29:55] Smirnov: The issue is, do they care if you modify then distribute, and if they do care, should they be able to stop you? [22:30:05] Erik: I don't think that would work :P [22:30:10] Why not? [22:30:23] First, because of the GPL's source code requirements [22:30:42] So just by publishing binaires, you could automatically fall afoul of the law [22:30:46] Why would that be an issue...? [22:31:04] And you can just publish binaries. [22:31:12] <14ninex> the way i see it is, if i need an application that does XX, i first check the open source sites. if i cant find an application on there that does what i want it to, i find an app else where, usually on google. sometimes the apps i find are free, and sometimes they arent. if they're free, then good. if they're not, i find the free version ;) [22:31:12] <+K`Tetch> ok, looks like people are too concerned with specifics [22:31:12] But if someone asks for the source you have to cough it up.. [22:31:26] <+K`Tetch> whats this concentration on software and open/closed source [22:31:32] well fellows, i think i'm out of here. views are set in stone, and one person controls the party's platform on this issue [22:31:45] <14ninex> personally, i trust open source software over closed source [22:31:48] <+K`Tetch> its a creative work, and any policy needs to be acordingly applicable [22:31:59] sigh... I wrote it, but it's by no means always going to be that way [22:31:59] tommstein: Don't leave. [22:32:17] Erik, what use am i here? [22:32:30] <14ninex> tommstein: dont be emo :( [22:32:30] hell, arguing this point got me de-opped [22:32:36] We're with you, the GPL and open software is good, and I don't think anyone here wants to ruin a good thing.. [22:32:38] you raised a good point that we would have had to deal with later [22:32:41] <@nbx909> tommstein, no it didn't [22:32:43] <7+K`Tetch> ninex - why, because 80 people you don't know and can't hold accountable checked it and said its ok, as opposed to 80 you can collectively hold accountable if something does go wrong? [22:32:51] If this party is to work we all need to work together. [22:33:01] <+K`Tetch> tommstein - no, what, i think, got you opped is that your nick wasn't reigstered with nickserv [22:33:11] <+K`Tetch> so its just a poor decision to op an unregistered nickname [22:33:13] <@nbx909> tommstein, i just randomly noticed that hey i have no idea he is [22:33:25] now you know [22:33:27] <@nbx909> who he is* [22:33:30] kinda [22:33:31] <@nbx909> tommstein, some random person [22:33:32] <@nbx909> lol [22:33:36] <@nbx909> who doesn't need ops [22:33:37] <@nbx909> lol [22:33:40] should we meet in person first? [22:33:46] <@nbx909> no [22:33:47] <@nbx909> lol [22:34:15] <14ninex> K`Tetch: i trust open source software more because i know i can look into the source code, and if needed, make a few adjustments. plus, i know there wont be any bad or malicious code in there [22:34:22] <+Smirnov> shit [22:34:26] <+Smirnov> what is lawrence lessig's stance on this [22:34:32] Someone mail him. [22:34:40] And CC Linus. [22:34:43] <@nbx909> heh [22:34:48] <14ninex> yeah [22:34:49] <@nbx909> would linus care? [22:34:56] <14ninex> sure he would [22:34:58] <14ninex> why not [22:35:02] <7+K`Tetch> ninex - how do you know theres no bad or malicious code in there? [22:35:03] * halonine is now known as sleep [22:35:05] Maybe, he is smart sometimes. [22:35:08] * sleep is now known as halonine|sleep [22:35:24] I can nearly guarantee Linus doesn't give a shit [22:35:28] lol [22:35:34] <+K`Tetch> there have been linux distro's that have had virii in them [22:35:42] <14ninex> K`Tetch: because i usually download the source, rather than the executables, and then check it over and compile :P [22:35:45] <+K`Tetch> and backdoors coded in [22:36:02] <7+K`Tetch> so, ninex, you look over every piece of code? [22:36:02] <@nbx909> really?!? [22:36:07] <+K`Tetch> yeah [22:36:20] <@nbx909> crap... [22:36:23] K^Tetch: he can use checksums to make sure the packages haven't been modified [22:36:25] <+K`Tetch> the last one that springs to mind was a thai or vietamese dsitro some time last year [22:36:29] <+K`Tetch> had a trojan in it [22:36:31] Well, I think this should really be discussed with the FSF and the EFF before we go off and state our stance on it.. [22:36:37] <14ninex> well, i scan through it, and its not like im analysing something big like stepmania or something [22:36:38] <@nbx909> K`Tetch, oh yeah i remember that [22:36:38] So, who is making the email? [22:36:40] <+K`Tetch> it wasn't modified, it was 'part of the distro' [22:36:47] I'd be happy to represent my side of it to them [22:36:54] just tell me how & when... [22:37:00] <14ninex> lol [22:37:05] * TheWizrd sets mode: +v Erik [22:37:06] <14ninex> slackware [22:37:09] * TheWizrd sets mode: +v halonine|sleep [22:37:11] <14ninex> ftw [22:37:18] * TheWizrd sets mode: +v Smirnov|laptop [22:37:19] <+Smirnov> no forget linus [22:37:21] <+Erik> Thanks for the voice. [22:37:22] <+Smirnov> cc RSM [22:37:22] * TheWizrd sets mode: +v snackbeard-work [22:37:30] <@nbx909> O.o [22:37:34] K^Tetch: I mean in terms of downloading the source & compiling [22:37:40] <+K`Tetch> write something then AdamG, some sort of position paper maybe [22:37:44] <+Erik> Why don't we just write an open letter to society in general? [22:37:51] <+Erik> While we're at it. :) [22:37:54] <@nbx909> heh [22:37:58] <+K`Tetch> still AdamG, open source is no guarentee of security, or lack of malware [22:38:00] <14ninex> :D [22:38:04] * gwillen|work raises an eyebrow at the deopping + voicing. [22:38:06] K^Tetch: agreed [22:38:08] <+K`Tetch> its reduced, but assuming there is none is just foolish [22:38:11] <@nbx909> dear society, hi. [22:38:12] <@nbx909> :P [22:38:17] <+Smirnov> Post this on the forums where other people will see it!!! [22:38:26] <+K`Tetch> so using it as a reason as to why its better than closed sourceis even worse [22:38:27] <+Smirnov> what should we use temporarily? [22:38:46] Smirnov: take it out or leave, it, I assume... [22:38:56] i'm out of here [22:39:15] What is being discussed? [22:39:20] <@TheWizrd> everything [22:39:20] Smirnov: if you can, can you change the front page to something nice and descriptive? [22:39:22] <+Erik> Nothing. [22:39:24] both. [22:39:25] <+Smirnov> dude [22:39:27] <+Smirnov> write something up [22:39:33] <+Smirnov> and email it to the list [22:39:34] <+K`Tetch> everything, nothing, and all in between [22:39:45] Website list or what? [22:39:54] <@TheWizrd> if you want something written please send it to us [22:40:01] for the front page or regarding the noncommercial redistrib [22:40:40] <+Erik> I think the noncommercial redistribution needs more justification before it can be put on the front page.. [22:40:44] <+Smirnov> for the front page [22:40:51] * tishimself (~tishimsel@THX-8EE84627.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #USpirateparty [22:40:52] <+Smirnov> something nice and descriptive you wanted [22:40:54] <+Smirnov> like our goals and stuff [22:41:14] <+Erik> I don't think it is a horrible idea, I just think that it has some problems, that have been pointed out.. [22:41:16] ok.... I've got something in mind [22:41:25] <+Smirnov> cool, pass it on to the usual guys [22:41:28] Erik: that's not going on the front page, _ever_ :P [22:41:43] <+Smirnov> and make sure you discuss the copyright GPL issue on the forums [22:41:50] <+Smirnov> where ppl can read the whole problem at once [22:42:25] <+Smirnov> We can ban obfuscation on derivative works ? [22:42:34] <+Smirnov> noncommercial obfuscation on derivative works? [22:42:43] <+Smirnov> but that would make the BSD go away hmm [22:42:51] Maybe somebody can take today's conversation and shape it into a nice little topic for further reference? [22:43:06] http://pastebin.ca/80124 [22:43:10] <14ninex> i think we need to organize all of the different issues into catagories [22:43:27] <+Erik> Just omit my stuff, it was retarded. [22:43:34] <@nbx909> Smirnov, cycle [22:43:53] <+Smirnov> how do i cycle [22:43:55] <+Smirnov> and please dont kick me [22:43:55] <14ninex> /hop [22:43:57] <+Smirnov> i dont want to lose this log [22:44:02] <+K`Tetch> maybe someone could - perhaps boil it down into a sumery, becuse all I've gotten from dipping in the las 2 hours or so has been some very specific and to be blunt wide ranging and sweeping changes proposed as a platform for a very small segment of copyright [22:44:03] <@nbx909> /cycle [22:44:06] * Smirnov (~Smirnovd@Smirnov.users.echel0n.net) has left #USpirateparty [22:44:06] * Smirnov (~Smirnovd@Smirnov.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [22:44:06] * PirateBot sets mode: +o Smirnov [22:44:09] <@Smirnov> ok phew :P [22:44:12] <@nbx909> heh [22:44:34] * snackbeard-work (~snackbear@snackbeard-work.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [22:45:15] <+K`Tetch> copyrigt is copyright, be it programming, or prose, a painting or a play [22:45:16] * cobaltgrc (~cobaltgrc@THX-44D5C01D.mn.res.rr.com) Quit (Connection reset by peer) [22:45:39] * cobaltgrc (~cobaltgrc@THX-44D5C01D.mn.res.rr.com) has joined #USpirateparty [22:46:22] K^Tetch: I'm sure we'll have the same convo in a more concise form on the forums. [22:46:30] <+K`Tetch> photographs, phonographs, or films, you can't single out one section of creative work for special treatment [22:46:35] * tommstein waves [22:46:41] * tommstein (~tommstein@40B3D4E7.521BEDCA.ED1FEC76.IP) Quit (Quit: Leaving) [22:46:53] <@Smirnov> K`Tetch, but we CAN ban ofscuation [22:47:05] <@Smirnov> and not disclosing the source is certainly that [22:47:26] <@Smirnov> or rather one-way obfuscation [22:47:31] <@Smirnov> so that encryption isnt affected [22:48:21] * Anon237 (~Anon237@THX-B9F58B40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #USpirateparty [22:48:40] interesting project [22:48:48] in addition to what was posted on the website [22:48:55] is there any interest in reforming tax law? [22:49:24] <+Erik> I see no problem with tax law as it is now, though I understand why some people may have problems with it. [22:49:25] <@Smirnov> If you post a good argument about it, there might be [22:49:25] ie... a fixed rate tax [22:49:27] anon: not really. We're a one-issue (sort of) party [22:49:39] * Anon182 (~Anon182@THX-C1909B33.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has joined #USpirateparty [22:49:59] <+Erik> I wouldn't say we're a one issue party.. [22:50:09] name:chaosdude78 [22:50:10] hence the (sort of) :) [22:50:11] <+Erik> I mean, we have copyright reform and privacy and protection of rights in there.. [22:50:17] I've become quite interested in the party over time... mainly i'm an OSS dev myself [22:50:33] * Anon182 (~Anon182@THX-C1909B33.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) Quit (Quit: Anon182) [22:50:33] <@Smirnov> ooh [22:50:34] lately you really cant do much w/o fear of being squished by the big cos in a patent suit [22:50:38] <@Smirnov> tell him about our FLOSS license problem [22:51:11] can we pass on that :P [22:51:30] actually, do tell 8-) [22:51:39] <@Smirnov> I figured it out [22:51:40] * Anon237 realizes that OSS relies heavily on copyright [22:51:52] <@Smirnov> we can ban one-way content obfuscation !!!! [22:52:19] <@Smirnov> Anon237, i hope you're not a bsd guy cause I just thought up of some crazy ass shit [22:52:35] heh... Each OS has it's use [22:52:37] <@Smirnov> if we dont do that, then copyright terms can expire and the money grubbing companies will still keep the source code forever [22:52:46] <@Smirnov> bsd the license not the platform [22:53:01] I dont exactly like the bsd license in of itself 8-) [22:53:04] <@Smirnov> Or maybe not.. I don't know [22:53:15] <@Smirnov> but if every company is forced to release the source code [22:53:24] <@Smirnov> hm [22:53:33] <@Smirnov> Then book manufacturers would be forced to release their PDFs.. hmm [22:53:36] first issue here is that companies are allowed the rights of you and I [22:53:39] Smirnov: I want to make deposit of source a requirement for registering a copyright [22:53:50] * Chaosdude78 (~Chaosdude@THX-C1909B33.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has joined #USpirateparty [22:53:54] <@Smirnov> AdamG, no thats making an exception bad [22:53:55] so, in order to get the extra 14 years, they have to preserve the source for eternity :) [22:53:58] IMO, you reg. a copyright, your code should be available [22:54:12] <@Smirnov> How about registering the non-obfuscated original material [22:54:13] <@Smirnov> there we go [22:54:20] <@Smirnov> Anon237, change your nick first [22:54:29] * Anon237 is now known as gerrynjr [22:54:30] <@Smirnov> Anon237, allso how could we abridge the company's rights [22:54:40] * Chaosdude78 (~Chaosdude@THX-C1909B33.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has left #USpirateparty [22:55:07] Smirnov: many of the idiocies we see occuring now are mainly due to companies have the rights you and I do [22:55:14] <@Ragnar> for one, make it impossible to contractually write away your rights on a work. [22:55:18] <@Smirnov> yes lets abridge their rights [22:55:36] companies lobby so much out of our (the people's) range that it is no doubt why they are served better [22:56:06] <@Ragnar> the current contracts with the media companies require you to basically give them your work. if you move to a different publisher, you cannot take your old work with you. [22:56:14] yup [22:56:22] <@Ragnar> that's anti free market [22:56:30] <@Smirnov> hm [22:56:42] <@Ragnar> we should abolish any such corporate welfare [22:56:45] <@Smirnov> wait [22:56:51] <@Smirnov> What if they developed the work fully on the corporate funds? [22:57:00] <@Ragnar> that's different [22:57:02] Smirnov: that is different 8-) [22:57:17] <@Smirnov> What are you talking about then [22:57:23] <@Smirnov> selling your copyright after the fact? [22:57:42] also: a form of corporate darwinism shoudl take hold... [22:57:44] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [22:57:49] no gov. funding to bail out failing cos [22:58:03] <@Smirnov> mmm [22:58:11] <@Ragnar> Smirnov: the way record contracts and some publishing contracts are written [22:58:11] <@Smirnov> there better be a good reason (cough great depression) [22:58:22] <@Smirnov> Ragnar, no idea about that one [22:58:30] <@Smirnov> I agree company rights should be abridged but we should fix our copyright loophole atm [22:58:35] * gerrynjr is now known as iamnotacrook [22:58:38] <@Smirnov> Can someone post the whole issue to http://www.pirate-party.us/forum/59 [22:59:06] another question I have... [22:59:16] how far is this project from becoming an "official" party? [22:59:33] <@Smirnov> People are looking up all the documents to register [22:59:44] <@Smirnov> Once we figure that out we can start the petioning to become a registered party [23:00:00] <@Ragnar> Smirnov: basically, the record company gives the musican a credit which he/she can use to record an album, with the record companies equipment (not allowed to use an independent studio for example), the album has to confirm to record companies expectations, and all that ... [23:00:22] also... do you guys think it may be possible for people to misunderstand the name and goals of the party? [23:00:27] <@Ragnar> Smirnov: if the album flops, the musician carries the whole risk. [23:00:30] "pirate... oh no.. they are for piracy" [23:00:35] <@Smirnov> iamnotacrook, yes... we need to rectify that [23:00:42] <@Smirnov> mm 584 diggs [23:00:43] which IMO, is not the case [23:01:03] iamnotacrook: right, that's an issue [23:01:36] more thoughts... if this party is to ever speed... there should be a "base" for other issues people will ask about... [23:01:43] ie.. will the party swing left... or right? [23:01:45] <@Smirnov> AdamG, you want to post the copyright thing on the forums later [23:01:51] <@Smirnov> AdamG, and what about the front page one? [23:01:52] on other issues not specifically addressed [23:02:15] <@Smirnov> I don't think we are sure yet of whether or not we will focus on things besides the 3 [23:02:28] http://pastebin.ca/80133 is a slighlty fixed version... thewizrd pinged out, so we didn't finish what he wanted added to it. [23:02:36] else... if people do vote.. they may be worried about other issues that may affect them [23:02:52] AdamG: unless of course, there are enough of the geek-to-live population [23:02:56] <@Smirnov> AdamG, thats stlil copyright only, patents and privacy need to receive equal mention [23:03:14] Smirnov: not patents. [23:03:18] <@Smirnov> yes patents [23:03:25] <@Smirnov> just mention that our patent system is obsolete and needs to change [23:03:27] <@Smirnov> and nothing of the details [23:03:51] as far as patents go... a discovery should be patentable... [23:03:57] *not [23:04:00] oops 8-) [23:04:03] lol [23:04:09] ok, smirnov, I'll work it in... [23:04:14] <@Smirnov> as you may have noticed we dont have anything resembling a patent platfrm [23:04:20] yup [23:04:37] It's probably safe to explicitly oppose software patents [23:04:40] in any case, I would like to offer more help with you guys... [23:04:48] <@Smirnov> So how about banning obfuscation of a modified redistributable? [23:04:49] I think that's a generally-held view of the membership... just not patents in general [23:04:56] i'll prob idle here a bit.. observe, and reply randomly 8-) [23:05:18] *also research as needed [23:05:19] <14ninex> im out for the night [23:05:24] <7gwillen|work> night ninex. [23:05:28] <14ninex> night [23:05:42] * iamnotacrook wonder if SpanKY is the gentoo SpanKY [23:05:46] iamnotacrook -- idling and randomly replying is my current strategy :-) [23:05:53] is routinisation a word? :P [23:06:08] routine- ization. [23:06:13] wtf? [23:06:17] Yes well I have to go work. Nice chatting with y'all. [23:06:17] * Charger (~Anon634@THX-294F4934.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: www.tj-hosting.com) [23:06:34] google seems to prefer with the 'z' rather than the 's'. [23:06:40] your mom is the gentoo SpanKY [23:06:44] ok.. that looks better... thx [23:06:45] the 's' spelling looks rather british to me. [23:07:08] SpanKY: trying to be serious here 8-) [23:07:24] <@Smirnov> routinisation sounds like a word [23:07:30] <@nbx909> heh [23:07:34] that makes one of us [23:08:21] heh, in contrast to Charger, I have to go home from work. [23:08:26] So I'll talk to y'all later. [23:08:27] * gwillen|work waves. [23:08:36] later [23:08:51] work tomorrow... nice to see you guys have an IRC channel, will be back tomorrow [23:09:06] <@Smirnov> cya [23:09:14] keep up the great work 8-) [23:09:25] <@Smirnov> hey did anyone post the story to /. ? [23:10:03] * iamnotacrook (~Anon237@THX-B9F58B40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Client exited) [23:11:29] <@Smirnov> we really do need to ask RMS and Lessig about this [23:12:42] <+Erik> I was going to send a letter out to webcomic artists too.. [23:13:19] <@nbx909> ha [23:14:15] <+Erik> What? They are one of the few types of artists that can make money without having to really protect the rights of their works.. [23:14:47] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) has joined #USpirateparty [23:14:47] * PirateBot sets mode: +ao TheWizrd TheWizrd [23:15:20] <@Smirnov> yo [23:15:33] <@Smirnov> Can someone give me a holler on my proposal to change our 3rd clause of our copyright reform stance [23:16:37] <@Smirnov> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/P76NAN30.html [23:16:39] <+Erik> I say remove it from the text until it can be justified completely. [23:16:50] <@Smirnov> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/oNvhiZ87.html forgot the "we" [23:17:31] http://pastebin.ca/80141 [23:17:38] <+Erik> And I say we don't put anything in the text unless everyone really agrees with it. [23:18:04] <@Smirnov> Do you disagree with that? lol [23:19:25] <@nbx909> yeah we need to vote on this stuff [23:19:30] <@nbx909> lol [23:20:20] <@nbx909> though i like what we have on the page now [23:20:21] <@nbx909> lol [23:20:37] <@Smirnov> http://pastebin.ca/80144 [23:20:45] <+Erik> I do, except I think that the no non-commercial distribution stuff is just not justified, and that's a problem. [23:20:56] <@Smirnov> ? [23:21:07] <@Smirnov> which part [23:21:11] <+Erik> Err, the non-commercial distribution stuff.. [23:21:31] <@Smirnov> um [23:21:33] <@Smirnov> yeah [23:21:36] <+Erik> "Third, we wish to cease the criminalization of noncommercial works distribution. We believe that knowledge and permission of the author should not be necessary for noncommercial distribution" [23:21:38] <@Smirnov> someone who read free culture should justify it [23:21:48] <@Smirnov> I'm only up to page 60 [23:21:52] <+Erik> Great, but that is just a stance, it isn't a reason. [23:21:57] gah, I keep trying to finish that. [23:21:58] <@nbx909> Those of us in the Pirate Party want to change that. We've chosen to adopt the Pirate symbolism so as to pay homage to the creative artists of the past, or as they would now be known, Pirates, theives, and copyright infringers. [23:22:00] <@nbx909> explain [23:22:15] <@Smirnov> adamg youre the man [23:22:20] Erik: my reason is that the rights of the user supercede the privileges of the author [23:22:22] <@nbx909> or rather who are these people? [23:22:24] but others may not agree [23:22:36] what'd I do now? [23:22:37] <@Smirnov> no forget about the copyright thing for now , we need the front page appended [23:22:42] <@Smirnov> answer nbx909's question? :P [23:22:54] <+Erik> Well that's fine, just explain it in a very well thought out, and understandable way, and then we can post it on the site if we all can agree on it. [23:22:57] <@nbx909> who wrote that? [23:23:08] I wrote it [23:23:11] <@Smirnov> adamg wrote it, i tweaked it [23:23:23] <@nbx909> AdamG, who are these people of the past? [23:23:32] the specific instance mentioned is disney [23:23:47] but basically anyone who used to make dervative works [23:24:04] but now can't due to copyright restrictions, or is limited in doing so [23:24:14] <@nbx909> i see [23:24:18] * Murray (~DemonicSk@THX-F456CA65.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #USpirateparty [23:25:06] <@nbx909> or as they would now be known today [23:25:16] <@nbx909> would be a better sentance [23:25:51] <@nbx909> or as they would be known by today's laws [23:26:32] <@Smirnov> Ok our copyright platform is down because it has too many controversies, we will debate it on the forum and put it back up later [23:26:33] * KennethJr (~chatzilla@EA66256B.764C849E.C0B8C07D.IP) has joined #USpirateparty [23:26:40] <@nbx909> yeah good idea [23:27:35] ... [23:27:40] <@Smirnov> Hello :) [23:27:53] not much noise here [23:27:58] so are there about 4 active people here? [23:28:01] <@nbx909> yeah it's 11 pm [23:28:03] <@nbx909> lol [23:28:04] <@Smirnov> its late [23:28:07] that's a point [23:28:16] Pirates never sleep [23:28:21] <@Smirnov> Yarr [23:28:24] <@nbx909> heh [23:28:25] exactly [23:28:37] I'm here, just listening [23:28:41] so what have y'all been discussing? [23:28:43] <@nbx909> sleep what is this sleep! quick help me saw off my leg [23:29:21] <@nbx909> Those of us in the Pirate Party want to change that. We've chosen to adopt the Pirate symbolism so as to pay homage to the creative artists of the past, or as they would now be known by todays laws, Pirates, theives, and copyright infringers. [23:29:28] <@nbx909> er today's [23:29:58] so is Net Neutrality on the platform? [23:30:04] <@Smirnov> I suppose so [23:30:06] <@Smirnov> Whatever's left of it [23:30:47] I suppose everyone else read or heard the imbecilic statements that Senator Stevens made [23:30:54] haha [23:31:03] <@Smirnov> i send the internets every day! [23:31:04] those amused me greatly, iirc [23:31:09] <@nbx909> KennethJr, what is this? [23:31:17] <@Smirnov> its made out of tubes i tell you!!! [23:31:39] http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499 [23:31:51] what is what nbx909? [23:32:09] <@nbx909> the imbecilic statements that Senator Stevens mad [23:33:23] <@nbx909> made* [23:33:30] http://digg.com/tech_news/John_C._Dvorak_on_Net_Neutrality_and_Senator_Ted_Stevens_s_idiocy [23:33:49] <@nbx909> Murray, that page isn't loading [23:33:51] <@nbx909> KennethJr, ty [23:33:57] no problem [23:34:07] weird [23:34:14] oh well, it's the same as KennethJr's basically [23:35:09] <@nbx909> okay ty [23:35:25] hmm [23:35:46] in that statement way above, is it implying that the historical definition of pirates were creative artists? [23:36:11] that would be a fallacy [23:36:35] to me, anyway, it seems like invoking "the past" implies the "yarr" pirates who were villainous cretins [23:36:54] * TheWizrd (~info@TheWizrd.users.echel0n.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [23:36:57] <+Erik> Yeah, that is a fallacy.. creative artists are pirates does not imply that pirates are creative artists. [23:37:19] pirate is an excellent term though, because like all names meant as put-downs it can be turned into a badge of pride [23:37:40] ok then [23:37:55] well, file-sharers I don't think were ever called "pirates" but rather their activities were "piracy" [23:38:07] <@Smirnov> software pirates [23:38:09] <@Smirnov> :) [23:38:50] <+Erik> I'd call them people, really. [23:39:12] <+Erik> It is such a common thing now. [23:40:18] hi all, can i help in any way? [23:40:33] the real problem with the *AA is that they haven't responded to piracy like the software companies and developers have [23:40:40] <+Erik> I'm not even for copyright infringement, and not compensating original authors and artists, but I've "pirated" things in the past. [23:41:13] Erik:it's gotten to the point where there aren't many who haven't [23:41:48] * Anon812 (~Anon812@THX-87F92A9D.rt-bras.wnvl.centurytel.net) has joined #USpirateparty [23:42:26] <@Smirnov> you mean with mundane activations and copy protection? [23:42:44] no, I'm talking about business models [23:42:45] mhm [23:42:46] * Anon812 (~Anon812@THX-87F92A9D.rt-bras.wnvl.centurytel.net) Quit (Quit: Anon812) [23:42:51] <+Erik> Software companies (at least good ones, Microsoft being the exception) don't generally cater directly to people, though. They write programs for business applications, or for engineering, or for graphic design/art.. [23:43:07] <+Erik> So most of their profit comes from companies. [23:43:35] <+Erik> And companies are easier to keep in line about that stuff than the entire population is. [23:43:39] see, in software you have freeware, shareware, opensource, enterprise, etc a whole variety of options for a whole variety of people and needs [23:43:50] <+K`Tetch> KennethJr - its not the place for industry associations and lobby groups TO respond [23:43:54] <+K`Tetch> they just execute the will of their members [23:43:58] the music industry is far too monolithic [23:44:21] <+K`Tetch> no its not really [23:44:24] <+K`Tetch> it just seems it [23:44:34] excellent software can be priced higher because of piracy [23:44:38] they don't have to cater [23:44:44] to every income bracket [23:44:58] * tishimself (~tishimsel@THX-8EE84627.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) Quit (Quit: Quit) [23:45:29] ok, I don't know much about economics, but that's the jist of it [23:46:27] <+K`Tetch> ok, well the gist of economics is, property is private, private creation stays the ownership rights of the person that creates it for a certain time [23:46:43] <+K`Tetch> copyright is copyright and should be global amongst the entire spectrum [23:46:56] <+K`Tetch> thats the basics, and no matter how much you want to wish that to change, it aint gonna [23:47:01] <+K`Tetch> so don't even waste time with it [23:47:05] * cobaltgrc (~cobaltgrc@THX-44D5C01D.mn.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: cobaltgrc) [23:48:22] copyright is important, but it shouldn't be immortal [23:48:26] <+K`Tetch> trying to single out siftware seems to have become ver common in here today [23:48:32] <+K`Tetch> oh, of course not [23:48:39] <+K`Tetch> 25 is about right [23:48:46] and I do think that pirating mp3s is silly [23:48:53] too much good indie music to support [23:48:56] <+Erik> K`Tetch: Have you read through Free Culture? [23:49:19] <+Erik> (just wondering) [23:49:21] <+K`Tetch> can't say i have [23:49:35] no, but I'll put it on the list [23:50:39] heard of it, lots of books like that it seems [23:50:44] <+Erik> You should, Lessig makes some very good points. [23:51:14] http://cspace.in [23:51:32] <+K`Tetch> i'm not generally going by essays or writings by any other person, i've gone through patent applications, worked on a copyright suit or two, and as a copyright enforcer, I have plenty of basis for my own mistaken views :-) [23:51:41] jake: what's that? [23:51:51] mmm, spam [23:51:59] "secure, decentralized, user-to-user communication" [23:52:03] <+Erik> I'm not either K`Tetch, it's just nice to know what other people think. [23:52:08] looks decent [23:52:35] <+K`Tetch> oh, i read something about cspace a few days ago, looked kinda meh [23:52:43] yeah [23:52:46] but it seems like a nice idea [23:52:51] <+Erik> What is CSpace again? [23:53:23] basically encrypted p2p chat [23:53:41] <+Erik> Interesting. [23:53:42] fancy [23:54:36] * nicklinus (~matt@THX-19E9C1AD.dhcp.hspr.ca.charter.com) has joined #USpirateparty [23:54:48] is there any hope that a PPUSA wouldn't devolve into name-calling and slacktivism? [23:54:48] hello [23:55:13] how many people here use newsgroups [23:55:16] <+K`Tetch> KennethJr - its dependant entirely on the membership [23:55:27] <+K`Tetch> the second is unlikely, the first is another matter [23:57:04] * nicklinus (~matt@THX-19E9C1AD.dhcp.hspr.ca.charter.com) has left #USpirateparty [23:57:07] <+Erik> Well, I will never devolve into name-calling.. [23:57:16] <+Erik> I hope.. [23:58:01] * tina runs and hides -[ G'night ]- at 11:57p -[ P:On / L:On ]- [23:58:01] * tina is now known as awayies [23:58:27] the only thing we would have to watch out for is a few members doing something to give the rest of us a bad name [23:58:36] <+Erik> Except for tina, those damn script kiddies and their special little 'away' scripts. [23:58:52] shhh. [23:58:58] lemme be special. [23:58:59] <+Erik> :P [23:58:59] =] [23:59:31] newh0izzle. [23:59:33] nite. xx [23:59:45] <+Erik> I don't have a clue as to what that meant. [23:59:51] .. [23:59:53] <+Erik> Anyway. [23:59:57] EXACTLY. Session Close: Thu Jul 06 00:00:01 2006